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I despise this sentiment. It's one of those tired cliches like "if you're not the customer you're the product", which at first pass seems like some cute insight

I despise this sentiment. It's one of those tired cliches like "if you're not the customer you're the product", which at first pass seems like some cute insight, but is actually awful at predicting anything about reality. This disagrees with literally everything I have ever heard or seen in the healthcare industry, whether that's from doctors (family), drug development (friends), or healthcare-focused finance (career). Everyone I've ever known or worked with in healthcare has always been 100% about trying to make people better. Yes, even in finance, where I evaluated biotech stocks to make recommendations to buy or sell. The better the the drug worked, the more excited everyone was about it. It's so hard to make a drug, that some sort of evil "let's help them but not cure them" approach isn't even possible, not that anyone I know would even want that. Yes, there was that Goldman Sachs report floating around a couple months ago about the difficulties to businesses when finding cures, but even that report's takeaway was about the need for finding companies that continue to innovate and come up with new therapies.

narrator 8y ago
Except chelation uses old, cheap out of patent drugs that only have to be taken for a limited time. American industry doesn't like cheap, old drugs.
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  Chelation is ineffective at repairing damage done by chronic heavy metal intake. It is mostly useful for acute toxicity. (And potentially cleaning up cholesterol arterial plaque, that is being investigated.) It has major side effects. Even in trial like 15% drop out rates were reported due to side effects. The main treatment if actual exposure is known and chronic is to... stop the exposure.
kgwgk 8y ago
It's hard to believe that you've never heard or seen anything that was not 100% about trying to make people better. (pay-for-delay, Valeant, evergreening, Theranos, citizen's petitions, Shkreli, off-label promotion, Insys, medicare fraud, Paxil, kickbacks...)
- losvedir 8y ago
  You're right, of course, and those are good counterexamples. In fact, one of the stocks I helped cover collapsed overnight when fraud was uncovered. But I see them as outliers who have been largely penalized (jail time, stock collapse, etc), not as indicative of the industry. The reason there was such a backlash is because the vast majority of the industry are good people, and these sorts of behaviors are shocking. I guess I meant literally everyone I've ever known personally has been like that. When you look at the news, yeah, you do see scandals. But I maintain that the idea that the industry would collude to not make cures is wrong. And similarly with doctors and their treatment of patients, which I've also seen argued.
  - justin66 8y ago
    > But I maintain that the idea that the industry would collude to not make cures is wrong. Why would you need to collude to make a decision like that? Everyone in that industry makes the same sort of analysis, I imagine. "How many doses of this will we sell, how much will they cost to make, and how much will we be able to charge for them?" If the equation indicates you'll lose money, exactly why wouldn't you just move on, assuming you're a for-profit business? You can always lobby for government or philanthropy or something to pay for the drug, but how many instances are there of a company just saying we're gonna lose at least a billion on this thing but it will be great and help a lot of people? (it's an honest question - maybe you've got an example that will make everybody a little happier)

narrator 8y ago

Except chelation uses old, cheap out of patent drugs that only have to be taken for a limited time. American industry doesn't like cheap, old drugs.

AstralStorm 8y ago
Chelation is ineffective at repairing damage done by chronic heavy metal intake. It is mostly useful for acute toxicity. (And potentially cleaning up cholesterol arterial plaque, that is being investigated.) It has major side effects. Even in trial like 15% drop out rates were reported due to side effects. The main treatment if actual exposure is known and chronic is to... stop the exposure.

kgwgk 8y ago

It's hard to believe that you've never heard or seen anything that was not 100% about trying to make people better. (pay-for-delay, Valeant, evergreening, Theranos, citizen's petitions, Shkreli, off-label promotion, Insys, medicare fraud, Paxil, kickbacks...)

losvedir 8y ago
You're right, of course, and those are good counterexamples. In fact, one of the stocks I helped cover collapsed overnight when fraud was uncovered. But I see them as outliers who have been largely penalized (jail time, stock collapse, etc), not as indicative of the industry. The reason there was such a backlash is because the vast majority of the industry are good people, and these sorts of behaviors are shocking. I guess I meant literally everyone I've ever known personally has been like that. When you look at the news, yeah, you do see scandals. But I maintain that the idea that the industry would collude to not make cures is wrong. And similarly with doctors and their treatment of patients, which I've also seen argued.
- justin66 8y ago
  > But I maintain that the idea that the industry would collude to not make cures is wrong. Why would you need to collude to make a decision like that? Everyone in that industry makes the same sort of analysis, I imagine. "How many doses of this will we sell, how much will they cost to make, and how much will we be able to charge for them?" If the equation indicates you'll lose money, exactly why wouldn't you just move on, assuming you're a for-profit business? You can always lobby for government or philanthropy or something to pay for the drug, but how many instances are there of a company just saying we're gonna lose at least a billion on this thing but it will be great and help a lot of people? (it's an honest question - maybe you've got an example that will make everybody a little happier)