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Man, this whole series is so well written. I remember back in the day, when lophtcrack, Medusa, Cain and Abel, and JackTheRipper along with massive (for the ti

Man, this whole series is so well written. I remember back in the day, when lophtcrack, Medusa, Cain and Abel, and JackTheRipper along with massive (for the time) rainbow tables were the tools of the trade (This was a little before internet exploits and Metasploit gained popularity). As a little script-kiddie, finding and running exploits on unsecured servers and machines, doing silly things like ARP poisoning in my high school lab network and bruteforcing zip files with passwords, oh such glorious times. I truly went from being a user of tech to a person with a hacker mindset, which has proved to be tremendously useful in my professional career. I honestly feel that in the current day and age, if anyone tried the same stuff many of us got away with in the early 2000s (or 90s), then the punishment would be much much stricter. Not sure how that gets in the way of people learning by "banging things together till they work", which was a major source of learning for me. Damn, I feel old now!

jraines 8y ago
> I honestly feel that in the current day and age, if anyone tried the same stuff many of us got away with in the early 2000s (or 90s), then the punishment would be much much stricter. From poring over stuff from this milieu, I figured out how I could change grade records at my school. I never did it, so I don't know what would've happened if I got busted. Some kid in the Bay Area just got busted for the same and is facing 14 felony charges. Anyway. This was my first encounter with hacker culture, and it was so brain expanding even though I understood practically none of it. Now, I could barely recount more than the few sentences I just did, but that logo brings up waves of nostalgia.
- some_account 8y ago
  Because the American legal system is insane.
  - peterwwillis 8y ago
    Yep. Teenagers who commit benign hacks for fun get more time than murderers. People's lives get ruined for effectively the digital form of trespass. It's pretty fucked up.
    - AckSyn 8y ago
      It's ridiculously sad. Back in the day getting caught for something ended up with a job offer, and I took it! These days or anything past 2005 it seems, will end up in criminal charges. It's disappointing, really.
    - jeffreyrogers 8y ago
      Do you have a source for people getting more time than murderers for "effectively the digital form of trespass". I agree that some parts of the legal system do not work very well, but I think that's a big exaggeration.
- cbcoutinho 8y ago
  Here's an article about the high school hacker extraordinaire [1]. My favorite line from the article has to be this one from the sergeant: > We wrote numerous search warrants to get the IP addresses of the possible phishing site email. We got it and we did good old fashioned police detective work and we narrowed it down to an address Good old fashioned police detective work indeed. [1] http://www.ktvu.com/news/concord-student-accused-of-hacking-system-to-change-grades-is-arrested http://www.ktvu.com/news/concord-student-accused-of-hacking-...
rashthedude 8y ago
oh wow....nostalgia just overcame me man.
dfxm12 8y ago
if anyone tried the same stuff many of us got away with in the early 2000s (or 90s), then the punishment would be much much stricter. It always amazes me that the person who effectively opens an unlocked door gets the book thrown at them while the people who left it unlocked get off scot-free.
- jeffreyrogers 8y ago
  Because one thing is criminal and the other is just negligent?
  - kazagistar 8y ago
    That's determined by the rules and enforcement we made up, not any particular moral principle.
    - jeffreyrogers 8y ago
      In one case you are deliberately committing an action. In another you are not doing something. In most cultures you have more moral culpability for actions you take than for actions you don't take.
  - dfxm12 8y ago
    Shouldn't criminals should face punishments that fit their crime? To use an example discussed elsewhere in this thread, is a juvenile with no priors changing their grades worth 14 felony charges? Plus, negligence can be a crime, too.
    - jeffreyrogers 8y ago
      Yes, they should face punishments that fit their crime. And I'm not arguing that 14 felony charges is reasonable for a grade change (although the way the legal system works you normally get charged with a lot although you might be convicted of very few if any charges). But it's natural that someone who commits a crime receives a harsher punishment than someone who neglects to put all relevant deterrents in place.
Datenstrom 8y ago
> I honestly feel that in the current day and age, if anyone tried the same stuff many of us got away with in the early 2000s (or 90s), then the punishment would be much much stricter. Not sure how that gets in the way of people learning by "banging things together till they work", which was a major source of learning for me. There are still resources for this CTF365 comes to mind and the Offensive Security lab for their certs. There are also awesome people putting up networks you are invited to attack for free, there was one that was part of a workshop at HOPE XI but I can't recall the site. And running even multiple VMs to practice with is something a lot of people can do today.
- thinkmassive 8y ago
  Could be https://www.hackthebox.eu/ https://www.hackthebox.eu/
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
fpgaminer 8y ago
I just finished playing the game Hacknet which simulates that nostalgic experience, to some extent. Obviously it's oversimplified and gamified, but it's a fun little game; worth playing. Its DLC, Labyrinths, even adds an IRC channel where you interact with your fellow hackers.
rootw0rm 8y ago
the good ol' days. I graduated high school in '99. grew up wardialing for BBSes and getting net access any way I could. My parents worked for schools and eventually the San Diego county office of education started an ISP for employees. I still remember when my mom received a letter because some scrub in Canada reported me for port scanning them. Almost lost our precious net access...I wasn't caught again.
fragmede 8y ago
Those rose colored glasses seem to have forgotten Kevin Mitnick, and the accounting practices used to inflate the impression of the amount of damage he did. He was confined to solitary for eight months (out of five years served) due to fears that he could "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone". The 90's in the school's computer lab may have felt differently if you escaped any sort of punishment for exploration, but the CFAA was first enacted in 1986 and the punishment for computer crimes have been disproportional since before then, owing to societal lack of understanding of how computers actually work.
- serf 8y ago
  My favorite picture with my now deceased mom is one with us in front of a prison/state facility that Kevin was being held in, with other protesters, holding a "FREE KEVIN!" bumper sticker. I was probably 13 at the time. I still have the sticker somewhere.
gitgacutils 8y ago
Reversing engineering cracks, visiting porn sites just for warez passwords or just wasting time reading 2600. It was the golden age for young kid with a passion for computers.

jraines 8y ago

> I honestly feel that in the current day and age, if anyone tried the same stuff many of us got away with in the early 2000s (or 90s), then the punishment would be much much stricter. From poring over stuff from this milieu, I figured out how I could change grade records at my school. I never did it, so I don't know what would've happened if I got busted. Some kid in the Bay Area just got busted for the same and is facing 14 felony charges. Anyway. This was my first encounter with hacker culture, and it was so brain expanding even though I understood practically none of it. Now, I could barely recount more than the few sentences I just did, but that logo brings up waves of nostalgia.

some_account 8y ago
Because the American legal system is insane.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  Yep. Teenagers who commit benign hacks for fun get more time than murderers. People's lives get ruined for effectively the digital form of trespass. It's pretty fucked up.
  - AckSyn 8y ago
    It's ridiculously sad. Back in the day getting caught for something ended up with a job offer, and I took it! These days or anything past 2005 it seems, will end up in criminal charges. It's disappointing, really.
  - jeffreyrogers 8y ago
    Do you have a source for people getting more time than murderers for "effectively the digital form of trespass". I agree that some parts of the legal system do not work very well, but I think that's a big exaggeration.
cbcoutinho 8y ago
Here's an article about the high school hacker extraordinaire [1]. My favorite line from the article has to be this one from the sergeant: > We wrote numerous search warrants to get the IP addresses of the possible phishing site email. We got it and we did good old fashioned police detective work and we narrowed it down to an address Good old fashioned police detective work indeed. [1] http://www.ktvu.com/news/concord-student-accused-of-hacking-system-to-change-grades-is-arrested http://www.ktvu.com/news/concord-student-accused-of-hacking-...

rashthedude 8y ago

oh wow....nostalgia just overcame me man.

dfxm12 8y ago

if anyone tried the same stuff many of us got away with in the early 2000s (or 90s), then the punishment would be much much stricter. It always amazes me that the person who effectively opens an unlocked door gets the book thrown at them while the people who left it unlocked get off scot-free.

jeffreyrogers 8y ago
Because one thing is criminal and the other is just negligent?
- kazagistar 8y ago
  That's determined by the rules and enforcement we made up, not any particular moral principle.
  - jeffreyrogers 8y ago
    In one case you are deliberately committing an action. In another you are not doing something. In most cultures you have more moral culpability for actions you take than for actions you don't take.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  Shouldn't criminals should face punishments that fit their crime? To use an example discussed elsewhere in this thread, is a juvenile with no priors changing their grades worth 14 felony charges? Plus, negligence can be a crime, too.
  - jeffreyrogers 8y ago
    Yes, they should face punishments that fit their crime. And I'm not arguing that 14 felony charges is reasonable for a grade change (although the way the legal system works you normally get charged with a lot although you might be convicted of very few if any charges). But it's natural that someone who commits a crime receives a harsher punishment than someone who neglects to put all relevant deterrents in place.

Datenstrom 8y ago

> I honestly feel that in the current day and age, if anyone tried the same stuff many of us got away with in the early 2000s (or 90s), then the punishment would be much much stricter. Not sure how that gets in the way of people learning by "banging things together till they work", which was a major source of learning for me. There are still resources for this CTF365 comes to mind and the Offensive Security lab for their certs. There are also awesome people putting up networks you are invited to attack for free, there was one that was part of a workshop at HOPE XI but I can't recall the site. And running even multiple VMs to practice with is something a lot of people can do today.

thinkmassive 8y ago
Could be https://www.hackthebox.eu/ https://www.hackthebox.eu/

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

fpgaminer 8y ago

I just finished playing the game Hacknet which simulates that nostalgic experience, to some extent. Obviously it's oversimplified and gamified, but it's a fun little game; worth playing. Its DLC, Labyrinths, even adds an IRC channel where you interact with your fellow hackers.

rootw0rm 8y ago

the good ol' days. I graduated high school in '99. grew up wardialing for BBSes and getting net access any way I could. My parents worked for schools and eventually the San Diego county office of education started an ISP for employees. I still remember when my mom received a letter because some scrub in Canada reported me for port scanning them. Almost lost our precious net access...I wasn't caught again.

fragmede 8y ago

Those rose colored glasses seem to have forgotten Kevin Mitnick, and the accounting practices used to inflate the impression of the amount of damage he did. He was confined to solitary for eight months (out of five years served) due to fears that he could "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone". The 90's in the school's computer lab may have felt differently if you escaped any sort of punishment for exploration, but the CFAA was first enacted in 1986 and the punishment for computer crimes have been disproportional since before then, owing to societal lack of understanding of how computers actually work.

serf 8y ago
My favorite picture with my now deceased mom is one with us in front of a prison/state facility that Kevin was being held in, with other protesters, holding a "FREE KEVIN!" bumper sticker. I was probably 13 at the time. I still have the sticker somewhere.

gitgacutils 8y ago

Reversing engineering cracks, visiting porn sites just for warez passwords or just wasting time reading 2600. It was the golden age for young kid with a passion for computers.