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How does Siri have a lack of data? They send all Siri requests to their servers. They have it all. It's not a data problem with Siri, and to excuse Apple Maps a

How does Siri have a lack of data? They send all Siri requests to their servers. They have it all. It's not a data problem with Siri, and to excuse Apple Maps after all these years --- come on, they have unlimited budget. There is no excuse at all. If this is the outcome after all this time they should have never made maps at all. I'm an Apple fan and I'm saying this.

jakobegger 8y ago
In my experience, there’s no problem with data about roads, routing etc in Apple Maps. That stuff works well, and in some cases even better than Google (Google Maps makes hilarious mispronunciations for German names that sometimes make it hard to follow voice instructions). Where Apple fails miserably is search, and local place names. Apple Maps data will often show results in a different country instead of whatever I meant to search for in my city. Trying to find businesses if you don’t know the full official names is practically impossible. Apple Maps works great if you know the official address, but it’s pretty much useless for anything else.
- Reason077 8y ago
  The Apple Maps location search experience has improved hugely in the last several years, at least here in the UK. It's still not quite up there with Google Map's location knowledge, but it's certainly not the often-innacurate mess it once was. The big difference I see now days comes down to how quickly the data is updated. To test this, take a newly opened (or closed) restaurant or store and compare Apple and Google's knowledge of the location. Google tends to have it almost immediately, presumably because Google provides tools for the business owners to enter the information directly. But Apple's knowledge can lag behind by a few weeks, or more for more obscure things. This is presumably due to their dependence on third-party data providers like Yelp.
  - lumisota 8y ago
    Apple provides similar tooling for businesses [0]. [0]: https://mapsconnect.apple.com https://mapsconnect.apple.com
  - Angostura 8y ago
    > The big difference I see now days comes down to how quickly the data is updated. To be fair to Apple, tehy are very responsive if you report. I quite often use the in-Map tool for reporting a problem with a location and these days get a 'Its been fixed' within a few days or a week.
    - jacksmith21006 8y ago
      In the end it is about user experience and Apple has failed to provide a competitive user experience with Apple Maps and Siri for that matter. To be that is not excusable. It has now been long enough for them to get it better and worries me that it is just now acceptable at Apple.
      - sbuk 8y ago
        What rot. Google have a 7 year head start on Apple in terms of mapping. To expect Apple to offer a service at a similar standard immediately is preposterous! Besides, Apple can pinpoint my address, Google cant, despite being repeatedly told. Siri is nowhere near as bad as you suggest. You are exaggerating to make a point.
        jacksmith21006 8y ago
        The issue is why is this acceptable by Apple? https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/59309194b74af426208b538d-1136-852.png https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/59309194b74af426208b5... Assistant is all about UX and the Apple of the past would do everything they could to be the best. I mean way better versus so far behind. They have had plenty of time now to make Apple Maps better. Here is a great comparison. https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ Why is this acceptable?
        sbuk 8y ago
        How old is that chart? > Apple of the past would do everything they could to be the best. Sigh... Which Apple? Scott? Jobs I/Markkula? Sculley? Spindler? Amelio? Jobs II? You are aware that this all started before 2007? The Performa series, released under Spindlers watch, were arguably the lowest point in Apple's history. So let's not get too hyperbolic about the state of Siri, which is considerably better than you allude to. As to accuracy, Google links into the biggest search engine in the world, and Google seem to be ethically challenged when examining that data. > They have had plenty of time now to make Apple Maps better. Here is a great comparison. That is subjective. Objectively, Apples maps are significantly better than they were upon release 6 years ago. As I already pointed out, Google have a 7 year head start in an area that is neither parties core business, so good enough is all they need to be. Google Maps are useless to me as they cannot find my address. Apple maps can. For me, in and around London, Apple's maps have been objectively better than Googles. YMMV. As to the article; building footprints make for better mapping? That's, like, your opinion man...
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    I will go back and try Apple maps from time to time. It will just do crazy stuff. Ask for something and want you to drive, literally, to something 300 miles away. It is easily confused when you use something by it's name. But trying to use Apple Maps on holiday in Europe was almost useless. Then so many other things. Google Maps will tell you if the place will be open or closed when you will get there for example. Apple use to stand for providing the best products. The best user experience. Somehow that has been lost and become acceptable to do a poor job. Same with Siri. It is just an awful user experience compared to using the Google Assistant. Guess my question is why is this acceptable? Look at their privacy agreement and you approve them collecting all kinds of data so that is not it. Heck Apple even forces you to accept them collecting data on people you interact with in the US. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ "When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to participate in Apple services or forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. Apple will use such information to fulfill your requests, provide the relevant product or service, or for anti-fraud purposes." I am tired of Apple getting a pass on offering a poor user experience. What they use to be all about.
    - Accacin 8y ago
      Trying to use Google Maps in Japan was useless, using the buses in Kyoto it wouldn't tell me what stop I'm at, etc. Apple maps could tell me exactly what stop I was at whereas Google Maps was lacking in information. Also, with regards to the blog link, why would you care about how detailed the buildings on the map are for daily use? And Google will tell me if something will be closed by the time I get there. But it's usually wrong for me.
      - jacksmith21006 8y ago
        It is the same when on holiday in Europe. Disappointing Apple does not do something about it and ok with having a product with a worse UX than competitors. I remember when Apple approach was to be the best.
  - sbuk 8y ago
    > It's still not quite up there with Google Map's location knowledge Depends on where you are. Goole maps are surprisingly poor in parts of London.
    - sbuk 8y ago
      So Google's maps aren't poor in London? Prove it. I can prove that they are poor in my area...
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Apple use to stand for providing the best user experience. I am old and been a fan of Apple for a long time. For some reason it is now acceptable to provide a bad user experience and Apple Maps is a perfect example compared to Waze or Google Maps. But the gap is increasing. It is the same with Siri. So will it be acceptable if an Apple self driving cars kills people? I just do not get the excuses for Apple? Why have they moved from what they use to stand for?
akvadrako 8y ago
Apple doesn't store Siri recordings for more than a short period for privacy's sake, unlike Google.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  That is an excuse. Wish we could put it to rest. Here is the privacy agreement for Apple in the US. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ Apple has the ability to collect all the same data as Google but actually more. Apple actually forces you to agree to them collecting data on people you interact with. I quote from the agreement. "When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to participate in Apple services or forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. " https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ I get Apple is great at marketing but lets work in reality. My issue is NOT that the Apple services are sub par but rather when did it become acceptable at Apple to have second rate user experiences? Why are they given a pass?

jakobegger 8y ago

In my experience, there’s no problem with data about roads, routing etc in Apple Maps. That stuff works well, and in some cases even better than Google (Google Maps makes hilarious mispronunciations for German names that sometimes make it hard to follow voice instructions). Where Apple fails miserably is search, and local place names. Apple Maps data will often show results in a different country instead of whatever I meant to search for in my city. Trying to find businesses if you don’t know the full official names is practically impossible. Apple Maps works great if you know the official address, but it’s pretty much useless for anything else.

Reason077 8y ago
The Apple Maps location search experience has improved hugely in the last several years, at least here in the UK. It's still not quite up there with Google Map's location knowledge, but it's certainly not the often-innacurate mess it once was. The big difference I see now days comes down to how quickly the data is updated. To test this, take a newly opened (or closed) restaurant or store and compare Apple and Google's knowledge of the location. Google tends to have it almost immediately, presumably because Google provides tools for the business owners to enter the information directly. But Apple's knowledge can lag behind by a few weeks, or more for more obscure things. This is presumably due to their dependence on third-party data providers like Yelp.
- lumisota 8y ago
  Apple provides similar tooling for businesses [0]. [0]: https://mapsconnect.apple.com https://mapsconnect.apple.com
- Angostura 8y ago
  > The big difference I see now days comes down to how quickly the data is updated. To be fair to Apple, tehy are very responsive if you report. I quite often use the in-Map tool for reporting a problem with a location and these days get a 'Its been fixed' within a few days or a week.
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    In the end it is about user experience and Apple has failed to provide a competitive user experience with Apple Maps and Siri for that matter. To be that is not excusable. It has now been long enough for them to get it better and worries me that it is just now acceptable at Apple.
    - sbuk 8y ago
      What rot. Google have a 7 year head start on Apple in terms of mapping. To expect Apple to offer a service at a similar standard immediately is preposterous! Besides, Apple can pinpoint my address, Google cant, despite being repeatedly told. Siri is nowhere near as bad as you suggest. You are exaggerating to make a point.
      - jacksmith21006 8y ago
        The issue is why is this acceptable by Apple? https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/59309194b74af426208b538d-1136-852.png https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/59309194b74af426208b5... Assistant is all about UX and the Apple of the past would do everything they could to be the best. I mean way better versus so far behind. They have had plenty of time now to make Apple Maps better. Here is a great comparison. https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ Why is this acceptable?
        sbuk 8y ago
        How old is that chart? > Apple of the past would do everything they could to be the best. Sigh... Which Apple? Scott? Jobs I/Markkula? Sculley? Spindler? Amelio? Jobs II? You are aware that this all started before 2007? The Performa series, released under Spindlers watch, were arguably the lowest point in Apple's history. So let's not get too hyperbolic about the state of Siri, which is considerably better than you allude to. As to accuracy, Google links into the biggest search engine in the world, and Google seem to be ethically challenged when examining that data. > They have had plenty of time now to make Apple Maps better. Here is a great comparison. That is subjective. Objectively, Apples maps are significantly better than they were upon release 6 years ago. As I already pointed out, Google have a 7 year head start in an area that is neither parties core business, so good enough is all they need to be. Google Maps are useless to me as they cannot find my address. Apple maps can. For me, in and around London, Apple's maps have been objectively better than Googles. YMMV. As to the article; building footprints make for better mapping? That's, like, your opinion man...
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  I will go back and try Apple maps from time to time. It will just do crazy stuff. Ask for something and want you to drive, literally, to something 300 miles away. It is easily confused when you use something by it's name. But trying to use Apple Maps on holiday in Europe was almost useless. Then so many other things. Google Maps will tell you if the place will be open or closed when you will get there for example. Apple use to stand for providing the best products. The best user experience. Somehow that has been lost and become acceptable to do a poor job. Same with Siri. It is just an awful user experience compared to using the Google Assistant. Guess my question is why is this acceptable? Look at their privacy agreement and you approve them collecting all kinds of data so that is not it. Heck Apple even forces you to accept them collecting data on people you interact with in the US. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ "When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to participate in Apple services or forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. Apple will use such information to fulfill your requests, provide the relevant product or service, or for anti-fraud purposes." I am tired of Apple getting a pass on offering a poor user experience. What they use to be all about.
  - Accacin 8y ago
    Trying to use Google Maps in Japan was useless, using the buses in Kyoto it wouldn't tell me what stop I'm at, etc. Apple maps could tell me exactly what stop I was at whereas Google Maps was lacking in information. Also, with regards to the blog link, why would you care about how detailed the buildings on the map are for daily use? And Google will tell me if something will be closed by the time I get there. But it's usually wrong for me.
    - jacksmith21006 8y ago
      It is the same when on holiday in Europe. Disappointing Apple does not do something about it and ok with having a product with a worse UX than competitors. I remember when Apple approach was to be the best.
- sbuk 8y ago
  > It's still not quite up there with Google Map's location knowledge Depends on where you are. Goole maps are surprisingly poor in parts of London.
  - sbuk 8y ago
    So Google's maps aren't poor in London? Prove it. I can prove that they are poor in my area...
jacksmith21006 8y ago
Apple use to stand for providing the best user experience. I am old and been a fan of Apple for a long time. For some reason it is now acceptable to provide a bad user experience and Apple Maps is a perfect example compared to Waze or Google Maps. But the gap is increasing. It is the same with Siri. So will it be acceptable if an Apple self driving cars kills people? I just do not get the excuses for Apple? Why have they moved from what they use to stand for?

akvadrako 8y ago

Apple doesn't store Siri recordings for more than a short period for privacy's sake, unlike Google.

jacksmith21006 8y ago
That is an excuse. Wish we could put it to rest. Here is the privacy agreement for Apple in the US. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ Apple has the ability to collect all the same data as Google but actually more. Apple actually forces you to agree to them collecting data on people you interact with. I quote from the agreement. "When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to participate in Apple services or forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. " https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ I get Apple is great at marketing but lets work in reality. My issue is NOT that the Apple services are sub par but rather when did it become acceptable at Apple to have second rate user experiences? Why are they given a pass?