4 ms·

>Hint: the proper balance is heavily leaning towards the child. Only if you want it to be. I don't know how the father felt about the whole situation, but it'

by araneae 16y ago

>Hint: the proper balance is heavily leaning towards the child. Only if you want it to be. I don't know how the father felt about the whole situation, but it's possible that he never wanted a child or this child. To be honest, his description of the whole affair was very detached. He nowhere uses the world "love" in describing any of it. In describing the process of child birth, he uses mostly negative adj., i.e. "perverse," "bloody," and "screaming," and there's no hint of "miracle" anywhere. For all we know he desperately wanted this woman to get an abortion, and she refused.

philwelch 16y ago
You can't mandate love or wonder, only responsibility. This guy's acted responsibly so far.
usaar333 16y ago
Perhaps he didn't want a kid. It doesn't matter; he got himself in this situation. He has admirably accepted the consequences by giving the best life he can to his child.
- araneae 16y ago
  >It doesn't matter; he got himself in this situation. They both got themselves into the situation, but only one had the option to get out of it. My point is that for him, the kid may not be number one priority, and I wouldn't blame him for that. It's one thing if you really want the child and then you turn around and spend all your time at your start-up, another if you didn't want the kid to begin with.
  - usaar333 16y ago
    If someone fathered a kid and didn't spend time with the child, I would place blame. I suspect we might just have different values here. I was taught at an early age that if you have a kid, you absolutely must take responsibility. If you cannot handle having a kid, simply do not impregnate.
    - araneae 16y ago
      This is tantamount to the anti-abortion argument that "if you didn't want to get pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex." Birth control is not 100% reliable, and abstinence is an undue burden to place on anyone. Your values are from a time when women didn't work and there was no social welfare; a fatherless child would often die or be destitute. Abortion was illegal, and children would languish in orphanages. Now, poor women often abort, and white babies are in high demand by potential adopters. This women works on Wall Street, so she can undoubtedly afford to raise the child on her own. It's hardly a similar situation.
      - usaar333 16y ago
        Several points: 1) Yes, these values were created long ago The question is if they still apply. 2) While being a single-mother isn't nearly as destructive these days, there do seem to be significant benefits to the child from having two parents. (how strongly is up for debate -- admittedly there are conflating variables here). 3) The father not taking care of the kid also has deleterious effects on the mother's career. 4) Even from a selfish perspective, following such advise reduces economic burden from child support. And social burden since society generally has such a value (rightly or wrongly). 5) Birth control is reliable enough compared to other risks in life. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_met.... Pick 2 independent methods and use correctly. 10 year failure rate is on the order of 1 in 300 (only triple that of dying in a car accident). Add a third and odds drop to 1 in 10000 (car accident death order of magnitude higher).
HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
I can't speak for the OP, but his writing actually was very reminiscent of my wife's C-section. "She cut me open yet?" "Yup, you're pretty much gutted like a fish, she's sticking in a retractor now. Can't you effing feel that?" "Nope, not a thing." "Aand, here comes a head. Kinda gross looking." "Why's he so quiet?" "Dunno, she's cleaning out his mouth with her finger." [Loud, piercing screams] "Yup, lungs work, I guess." "Dad, would you like to cut the cord now?" It was really an odd combo of detachment and magical amazement.

by araneae 16y ago

philwelch 16y ago

You can't mandate love or wonder, only responsibility. This guy's acted responsibly so far.

usaar333 16y ago

Perhaps he didn't want a kid. It doesn't matter; he got himself in this situation. He has admirably accepted the consequences by giving the best life he can to his child.

araneae 16y ago
>It doesn't matter; he got himself in this situation. They both got themselves into the situation, but only one had the option to get out of it. My point is that for him, the kid may not be number one priority, and I wouldn't blame him for that. It's one thing if you really want the child and then you turn around and spend all your time at your start-up, another if you didn't want the kid to begin with.
- usaar333 16y ago
  If someone fathered a kid and didn't spend time with the child, I would place blame. I suspect we might just have different values here. I was taught at an early age that if you have a kid, you absolutely must take responsibility. If you cannot handle having a kid, simply do not impregnate.
  - araneae 16y ago
    This is tantamount to the anti-abortion argument that "if you didn't want to get pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex." Birth control is not 100% reliable, and abstinence is an undue burden to place on anyone. Your values are from a time when women didn't work and there was no social welfare; a fatherless child would often die or be destitute. Abortion was illegal, and children would languish in orphanages. Now, poor women often abort, and white babies are in high demand by potential adopters. This women works on Wall Street, so she can undoubtedly afford to raise the child on her own. It's hardly a similar situation.
    - usaar333 16y ago
      Several points: 1) Yes, these values were created long ago The question is if they still apply. 2) While being a single-mother isn't nearly as destructive these days, there do seem to be significant benefits to the child from having two parents. (how strongly is up for debate -- admittedly there are conflating variables here). 3) The father not taking care of the kid also has deleterious effects on the mother's career. 4) Even from a selfish perspective, following such advise reduces economic burden from child support. And social burden since society generally has such a value (rightly or wrongly). 5) Birth control is reliable enough compared to other risks in life. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_met.... Pick 2 independent methods and use correctly. 10 year failure rate is on the order of 1 in 300 (only triple that of dying in a car accident). Add a third and odds drop to 1 in 10000 (car accident death order of magnitude higher).

HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago

I can't speak for the OP, but his writing actually was very reminiscent of my wife's C-section. "She cut me open yet?" "Yup, you're pretty much gutted like a fish, she's sticking in a retractor now. Can't you effing feel that?" "Nope, not a thing." "Aand, here comes a head. Kinda gross looking." "Why's he so quiet?" "Dunno, she's cleaning out his mouth with her finger." [Loud, piercing screams] "Yup, lungs work, I guess." "Dad, would you like to cut the cord now?" It was really an odd combo of detachment and magical amazement.