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I wonder how much this was about Apple being "spurned by BMW and Mercedes", and how much it was about "no other car manufacturer was as desperate for sales and

I wonder how much this was about Apple being "spurned by BMW and Mercedes", and how much it was about "no other car manufacturer was as desperate for sales and PR as post-dieselgate Volkswagen - or were prepared to sign up to Apple's offer of outrageously onerous terms and privacy/IP ownership clauses"?

adrianN 8y ago
Unfortunately VW doesn't seem to be desperate for sales. They're selling more than ever before.
- batbomb 8y ago
  That’s because they are a level above the other vehicles in the same price range.
  - stiGGG 8y ago
    >That’s because they are a level above in marketing to the other vehicles in the same price range. FTFY Reference: I‘ve owned two VWs and an Audi.
    - carlmr 8y ago
      Also VW is selling a lot of the other cheaper vehicles that are advertised less as well. Skoda and Seat are VW.
    - blattimwind 8y ago
      So, you owned three VWs?
fergie 8y ago
Maybe VW was just the best match. VW have significant experience of producing cars for other manufacturers, and put a lot of effort into developing reusable "platforms". They are super popular in Europe- hitting the exact sweet spot between practicality and desirability (Top Gear described the Golf as "the car that everybody buys with their own money"). The forthcoming ID range is perhaps the strongest lineup of EVs in any manufacturer's pipeline. They need more traction in the US, and it therefore makes sense to partner with the arguably coolest US corporation.
- Tade0 8y ago
  Golf driver spotted. But jokes aside I wouldn't be so sure about this. DHL has famously chosen StreetScooter instead of VW to built their last-mile fleet and the top brass in VW were also famously upset about this. Also sales of the first gen Golf EV weren't even of the same order as sales of e.g. the LEAF - perhaps because VW insisted on keeping diesels alive longer than it made any sense.
  - carlmr 8y ago
    >perhaps because VW insisted on keeping diesels alive longer than it made any sense. They're still making way more money than the leaf on Diesels. Giving up on your cash cows is the most misguided business advice I've ever seen. You should use the money from your cash cows to innovate. And wishing for more innovation on the EV side would be nice for advertisement mostly. EVs just aren't mass market yet. It's good to have the EV knowledge ready when you need it. So far I would agree with you. But how many EVs you sell has little to do with how much you know about the technology.
    - Tade0 8y ago
      > They're still making way more money than the leaf on Diesels. Giving up on your cash cows is the most misguided business advice I've ever seen. Was that cash cow worth a global scandal, billions lost in unsaleable inventory(hundred thousands) and fines($25bln) though? I mean - they lost roughly two years of net income here and had several executives land in prison. Nissan on the other hand invested roughly 20% of that($4bln) to develop the LEAF. Perhaps giving up on diesels before it was too late constituted sound advice after all?
      - carlmr 8y ago
        You're forgetting that Diesels are still making up a huge amount of VW group profit. Of course the scandal wasn't worth it, but it also wasn't necessary. Rather the decision to save on AdBlue was not worth it, not the Diesel technology itself. I mean it's kind of like asking GM if it was worth it to not update their ignitions after they found out they were faulty and killed a few people (and got off easy because US company ;)). It's not a problem with ignition switch technology itself, but just this case of bad management decisions. You can invest 4bn in EV technology, that would be smart, but those 4bn have to be made somewhere. In this case you can make this with Diesels and reinvest in EV. This is not some SV startup that will just waste its investors cash reserves until it goes broke.
TheForumTroll 8y ago
Desperate how? VW sells more cars now than before dieselgate..

adrianN 8y ago

Unfortunately VW doesn't seem to be desperate for sales. They're selling more than ever before.

batbomb 8y ago
That’s because they are a level above the other vehicles in the same price range.
- stiGGG 8y ago
  >That’s because they are a level above in marketing to the other vehicles in the same price range. FTFY Reference: I‘ve owned two VWs and an Audi.
  - carlmr 8y ago
    Also VW is selling a lot of the other cheaper vehicles that are advertised less as well. Skoda and Seat are VW.
  - blattimwind 8y ago
    So, you owned three VWs?

fergie 8y ago

Maybe VW was just the best match. VW have significant experience of producing cars for other manufacturers, and put a lot of effort into developing reusable "platforms". They are super popular in Europe- hitting the exact sweet spot between practicality and desirability (Top Gear described the Golf as "the car that everybody buys with their own money"). The forthcoming ID range is perhaps the strongest lineup of EVs in any manufacturer's pipeline. They need more traction in the US, and it therefore makes sense to partner with the arguably coolest US corporation.

Tade0 8y ago
Golf driver spotted. But jokes aside I wouldn't be so sure about this. DHL has famously chosen StreetScooter instead of VW to built their last-mile fleet and the top brass in VW were also famously upset about this. Also sales of the first gen Golf EV weren't even of the same order as sales of e.g. the LEAF - perhaps because VW insisted on keeping diesels alive longer than it made any sense.
- carlmr 8y ago
  >perhaps because VW insisted on keeping diesels alive longer than it made any sense. They're still making way more money than the leaf on Diesels. Giving up on your cash cows is the most misguided business advice I've ever seen. You should use the money from your cash cows to innovate. And wishing for more innovation on the EV side would be nice for advertisement mostly. EVs just aren't mass market yet. It's good to have the EV knowledge ready when you need it. So far I would agree with you. But how many EVs you sell has little to do with how much you know about the technology.
  - Tade0 8y ago
    > They're still making way more money than the leaf on Diesels. Giving up on your cash cows is the most misguided business advice I've ever seen. Was that cash cow worth a global scandal, billions lost in unsaleable inventory(hundred thousands) and fines($25bln) though? I mean - they lost roughly two years of net income here and had several executives land in prison. Nissan on the other hand invested roughly 20% of that($4bln) to develop the LEAF. Perhaps giving up on diesels before it was too late constituted sound advice after all?
    - carlmr 8y ago
      You're forgetting that Diesels are still making up a huge amount of VW group profit. Of course the scandal wasn't worth it, but it also wasn't necessary. Rather the decision to save on AdBlue was not worth it, not the Diesel technology itself. I mean it's kind of like asking GM if it was worth it to not update their ignitions after they found out they were faulty and killed a few people (and got off easy because US company ;)). It's not a problem with ignition switch technology itself, but just this case of bad management decisions. You can invest 4bn in EV technology, that would be smart, but those 4bn have to be made somewhere. In this case you can make this with Diesels and reinvest in EV. This is not some SV startup that will just waste its investors cash reserves until it goes broke.

TheForumTroll 8y ago

Desperate how? VW sells more cars now than before dieselgate..