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Would you ask the same question if the world run 100% on renewables? If not, it seems that your argument should be "we should accelerate our transition to renew

Would you ask the same question if the world run 100% on renewables? If not, it seems that your argument should be "we should accelerate our transition to renewables" instead of "bitcoin spends too much power". Also they pay for all the energy they spend so what exactly is the problem? Do you see vegans complain for the resources spent to raise animals?

mikeash 8y ago
The problem is that energy is priced far below costs at the moment, due to a large proportion of the costs being externalized.
vkou 8y ago
> Would you ask the same question if the world run 100% on renewables? Yes, because the resources (Material or labour) that went into building those renewable power plants could have gone into building something else that people want or need. Houses. Retaining walls. High-speed rail tracks. Electric cars. Bicycles. Video games. Rolls of sushi. I will keep asking that question until we are in a post-scarcity society.
- eriken 8y ago
  So we all get to decide how all the resources are spent? I am concerned that the desire to deem certain energy spending as unethical can lead us down a creepy path of authoritarianism.
baddox 8y ago
This is a fairly good point. Any argument about externalities in energy usage applies to all usages of energy, and the solution is to internalize them in the price of energy.
- rspeer 8y ago
  What a great idea. All you'd need is a centralized world government to enforce it, and then you can have a responsible, decentralized currency! Wait.
spookthesunset 8y ago
> Would you ask the same question if the world run 100% on renewables Opportunity cost. All that 100% renewable energy could be used for something that actually adds value to society but isn't because it is being pissed away on the Rube Goldberg invention known as Satoshi's BlockChain. > Also they pay for all the energy they spend so what exactly is the problem? Give me a fucking break. These miners raise the price of electricity for everybody else and produce absolutely nothing of value to society at large. Same thing these miners have done with graphics cards -- they've made graphics cards more expensive than most people can afford... you know, people who want to use those video cards for playing games instead of sucking down large quantities of non-renewable energy in a vain attempt to Get Rich Quick. Bitcoin and all the others in the crypto "space" add absolutely zero value to society.
- always_good 8y ago
  Pretty weak line of reasoning. How much energy do you and everyone else waste doing things that don't add value to my life or society? Using your own comparison, why is it a big deal if little Jimmy can't afford a graphics card to play some Counter-Strike? Is gaming a better use for energy? Seems weird to pick on cryptocurrencies if you actually believe your premise, which I don't think you do.
  - spookthesunset 8y ago
    > Pretty weak line of reasoning. Hardly. What, exactly, does bitcoin add to our world? Near as I can tell it's only use case is Making Money Fast (for the folks at the top of the pyramid, anyway) and scamming the bejesus out of all the rubes who fall for the con. > How much energy do you and everyone else waste doing things that don't add value to my life or society? Bitcoin is estimated to consume more than 0.5% of all the worlds energy. Many nations use less power than bitcoin consumes. Bitcoin can process a mere 4 transactions per second. Please go on and explain to me why this is even a remotely acceptable thing. The whole space is a deplorable shame and people like you should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves. You are a drain on the planet's limited resources.

mikeash 8y ago

The problem is that energy is priced far below costs at the moment, due to a large proportion of the costs being externalized.

vkou 8y ago

> Would you ask the same question if the world run 100% on renewables? Yes, because the resources (Material or labour) that went into building those renewable power plants could have gone into building something else that people want or need. Houses. Retaining walls. High-speed rail tracks. Electric cars. Bicycles. Video games. Rolls of sushi. I will keep asking that question until we are in a post-scarcity society.

eriken 8y ago
So we all get to decide how all the resources are spent? I am concerned that the desire to deem certain energy spending as unethical can lead us down a creepy path of authoritarianism.

baddox 8y ago

This is a fairly good point. Any argument about externalities in energy usage applies to all usages of energy, and the solution is to internalize them in the price of energy.

rspeer 8y ago
What a great idea. All you'd need is a centralized world government to enforce it, and then you can have a responsible, decentralized currency! Wait.

spookthesunset 8y ago

> Would you ask the same question if the world run 100% on renewables Opportunity cost. All that 100% renewable energy could be used for something that actually adds value to society but isn't because it is being pissed away on the Rube Goldberg invention known as Satoshi's BlockChain. > Also they pay for all the energy they spend so what exactly is the problem? Give me a fucking break. These miners raise the price of electricity for everybody else and produce absolutely nothing of value to society at large. Same thing these miners have done with graphics cards -- they've made graphics cards more expensive than most people can afford... you know, people who want to use those video cards for playing games instead of sucking down large quantities of non-renewable energy in a vain attempt to Get Rich Quick. Bitcoin and all the others in the crypto "space" add absolutely zero value to society.

always_good 8y ago
Pretty weak line of reasoning. How much energy do you and everyone else waste doing things that don't add value to my life or society? Using your own comparison, why is it a big deal if little Jimmy can't afford a graphics card to play some Counter-Strike? Is gaming a better use for energy? Seems weird to pick on cryptocurrencies if you actually believe your premise, which I don't think you do.
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  > Pretty weak line of reasoning. Hardly. What, exactly, does bitcoin add to our world? Near as I can tell it's only use case is Making Money Fast (for the folks at the top of the pyramid, anyway) and scamming the bejesus out of all the rubes who fall for the con. > How much energy do you and everyone else waste doing things that don't add value to my life or society? Bitcoin is estimated to consume more than 0.5% of all the worlds energy. Many nations use less power than bitcoin consumes. Bitcoin can process a mere 4 transactions per second. Please go on and explain to me why this is even a remotely acceptable thing. The whole space is a deplorable shame and people like you should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves. You are a drain on the planet's limited resources.