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1) Many actions of Antifa are immoral, authoritarian, and bad for society. I can write this here on HN, but I've encountered what can only be described as toxic

1) Many actions of Antifa are immoral, authoritarian, and bad for society. I can write this here on HN, but I've encountered what can only be described as toxicity on other social media and in person. (The most extreme example of this would be someone responding to a wedding invite by calling me a racist.) 2) Homo sapiens is a sexually dimorphic species, which results in some biologically driven differences on average between men and women. Again, I can write this here on HN, but I've encountered what can only be described as extreme toxicity on other social media and in person.

clairity 8y ago
> Homo sapiens is a sexually dimorphic species, which results in some biologically driven differences on average between men and women. the precision with which you said that is key. you can say things about populations that are not necessarily true of many, or even most, of the individuals in the population. as a human, i can run, but how would you define running for a given cell? cells don't run, but a specific collection and configuration of cells can. other collections of cells can swim. still others do both.
KozmoNau7 8y ago
You need to be more precise in your point #1, as you are in #2, where you specifically speak about populations on average, and not individuals. Specifically, the actions you refer to are not perpetrated by antifascists as a whole. The groups calling themselves Antifa (a name shared by several specific antifascist activist groups in different countries) have several internal factions, and the violent protests that the news love to cover are specifically the actions of the minority black bloc factions of some Antifa groups, which are more or less autonomous "extreme activist" subgroups. Normal Antifa paints over swastikas and run counter-protests against the KKK and similar groups. The black bloc activists tend more towards chaos and violence, out of a belief that violence is the only language fascists respond to, so they are fighting fire with fire, in their own words. I don't dispute that some regular Antifa members turn a blind eye to black bloc actions, but certainly not all of them. As a pacifist, I strongly support anti-fascism and ordinary Antifa, but I absolutely do not condone black bloc activities.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  You need to be more precise in your point #1, as you are in #2, where you specifically speak about populations on average, and not individuals. Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill republican or a libertarian or classical liberal or centrist with a fascist or nazi -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing Antifa have done so -- you are a hypocrite. As a pacifist, I strongly support anti-fascism and ordinary Antifa, but I absolutely do not condone black bloc activities. Do you oppose black bloc as vigorously and strongly as you've opposed fascism? Do you ever hold your tongue? Decades back, there were people who hid their faces in masks, feeling strong in their numbers and anonymity, who created symbolic spectacles for their view of "justice." Some, not all of them, went around committing crimes of vandalism and even murder. These masks were white. Did any of the people who did not commit those crimes, but wore the same colors and held their tongues -- are any of them innocent, or are all of them complicit? Until I see public communications from Antifa that they are opposing and repudiating the Black Bloc and their violence and vandalism, anyone with them who claims they are pacifists are hypocrites.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    False equivalency in action. >“Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill republican or a libertarian or classical liberal or centrist with a fascist or nazi -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing Antifa have done so -- you are a hypocrite.“ Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill social democrat or a socialist or liberal democrat or centrist with a stalinist -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing right wingers have done so -- you are a hypocrite. See how that works? Did we just alle collectively forget the name-calling that happens from the right whenever anyone even remotely left wing wins an election or enacts a policy? For the record, I save the terms "fascist" and "Nazi" for actual fascists, including the ones trying to be cute about it (the dudes with "I <3 AH" t-shirts and the like). No, I do not oppose black Bloc quite as vigorously as I oppose (actual) fascists and Nazis. Why? Because fascists exploit, harass, beat up and outright murder those they seem to be lesser people, simply based on the color of their skin or their culture/religion. Black Bloc beats up fascists and yes, cause petty vandalism. You absolutely cannot draw equivalency between them. They are in completely different leagues.
leephillips 8y ago
Amazing. These seem like almost self-evident assertions. Thanks for answering.

clairity 8y ago

> Homo sapiens is a sexually dimorphic species, which results in some biologically driven differences on average between men and women. the precision with which you said that is key. you can say things about populations that are not necessarily true of many, or even most, of the individuals in the population. as a human, i can run, but how would you define running for a given cell? cells don't run, but a specific collection and configuration of cells can. other collections of cells can swim. still others do both.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

You need to be more precise in your point #1, as you are in #2, where you specifically speak about populations on average, and not individuals. Specifically, the actions you refer to are not perpetrated by antifascists as a whole. The groups calling themselves Antifa (a name shared by several specific antifascist activist groups in different countries) have several internal factions, and the violent protests that the news love to cover are specifically the actions of the minority black bloc factions of some Antifa groups, which are more or less autonomous "extreme activist" subgroups. Normal Antifa paints over swastikas and run counter-protests against the KKK and similar groups. The black bloc activists tend more towards chaos and violence, out of a belief that violence is the only language fascists respond to, so they are fighting fire with fire, in their own words. I don't dispute that some regular Antifa members turn a blind eye to black bloc actions, but certainly not all of them. As a pacifist, I strongly support anti-fascism and ordinary Antifa, but I absolutely do not condone black bloc activities.

stcredzero 8y ago
You need to be more precise in your point #1, as you are in #2, where you specifically speak about populations on average, and not individuals. Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill republican or a libertarian or classical liberal or centrist with a fascist or nazi -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing Antifa have done so -- you are a hypocrite. As a pacifist, I strongly support anti-fascism and ordinary Antifa, but I absolutely do not condone black bloc activities. Do you oppose black bloc as vigorously and strongly as you've opposed fascism? Do you ever hold your tongue? Decades back, there were people who hid their faces in masks, feeling strong in their numbers and anonymity, who created symbolic spectacles for their view of "justice." Some, not all of them, went around committing crimes of vandalism and even murder. These masks were white. Did any of the people who did not commit those crimes, but wore the same colors and held their tongues -- are any of them innocent, or are all of them complicit? Until I see public communications from Antifa that they are opposing and repudiating the Black Bloc and their violence and vandalism, anyone with them who claims they are pacifists are hypocrites.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  False equivalency in action. >“Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill republican or a libertarian or classical liberal or centrist with a fascist or nazi -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing Antifa have done so -- you are a hypocrite.“ Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill social democrat or a socialist or liberal democrat or centrist with a stalinist -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing right wingers have done so -- you are a hypocrite. See how that works? Did we just alle collectively forget the name-calling that happens from the right whenever anyone even remotely left wing wins an election or enacts a policy? For the record, I save the terms "fascist" and "Nazi" for actual fascists, including the ones trying to be cute about it (the dudes with "I <3 AH" t-shirts and the like). No, I do not oppose black Bloc quite as vigorously as I oppose (actual) fascists and Nazis. Why? Because fascists exploit, harass, beat up and outright murder those they seem to be lesser people, simply based on the color of their skin or their culture/religion. Black Bloc beats up fascists and yes, cause petty vandalism. You absolutely cannot draw equivalency between them. They are in completely different leagues.

leephillips 8y ago

Amazing. These seem like almost self-evident assertions. Thanks for answering.