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Even if they did support it, you'd be getting a much worse experience with other tools than just using IntelliJ anyways. Given that they've gone through the tro

by jrs95 8y ago

Even if they did support it, you'd be getting a much worse experience with other tools than just using IntelliJ anyways. Given that they've gone through the trouble to write an entire programming language & the amount of value it provides, I really don't mind them trying to use it to push people towards their products a bit. Especially since both IntelliJ Community and the Kotlin plugin are open source.

ysleepy 8y ago
I agree, all the language server stuff is a win for the scripting and IDE-less ecosystems, but for languages with proper IDE support it is such a monumental step back. So much that nobody working with the existing tooling/IDEs will invest time to implement a language server backend.
- Rapzid 8y ago
  I've got a couple languages in mind that have "proper IDE" support, and the vscode experience with them is pretty fantastic as well, even if not perfect.
  - ysleepy 8y ago
    Could you name one or two? By proper IDE support, I mean support for advanced and precise refactoring, build integration, debugging and so on. Dot autocomplete is only a litte part of it.
Rapzid 8y ago
"much worse" sounds a bit hyperbolic. Lets assume it would be not as good though, at least at first. It's a little conceited for them to believe they are going to be the best at all things to all people. Letting it out of the nest has greater future potential for wider integration and features in the long run. Maybe Eclipse project or Redhat will eventually do the right by the language.. I don't mind them doing this either. I just find the thinking outmoded, and I also don't mind just not using Kotlin. And to clarify, it's not just the decision to not support language server protocol at this time; it's their reaction to the mere suggestion of it. The language steering is too coupled to the biz IMHO. For what it's worth, I feel the same way about F# and the Visual F# Power Tools team and is the prior experience that raises the red flag.

by jrs95 8y ago

ysleepy 8y ago

I agree, all the language server stuff is a win for the scripting and IDE-less ecosystems, but for languages with proper IDE support it is such a monumental step back. So much that nobody working with the existing tooling/IDEs will invest time to implement a language server backend.

Rapzid 8y ago
I've got a couple languages in mind that have "proper IDE" support, and the vscode experience with them is pretty fantastic as well, even if not perfect.
- ysleepy 8y ago
  Could you name one or two? By proper IDE support, I mean support for advanced and precise refactoring, build integration, debugging and so on. Dot autocomplete is only a litte part of it.

Rapzid 8y ago

"much worse" sounds a bit hyperbolic. Lets assume it would be not as good though, at least at first. It's a little conceited for them to believe they are going to be the best at all things to all people. Letting it out of the nest has greater future potential for wider integration and features in the long run. Maybe Eclipse project or Redhat will eventually do the right by the language.. I don't mind them doing this either. I just find the thinking outmoded, and I also don't mind just not using Kotlin. And to clarify, it's not just the decision to not support language server protocol at this time; it's their reaction to the mere suggestion of it. The language steering is too coupled to the biz IMHO. For what it's worth, I feel the same way about F# and the Visual F# Power Tools team and is the prior experience that raises the red flag.