6 ms·

In Europe there are a lot of these so-called "research chemicals". They are basically illegal drugs but chemically they are different enough that they aren't il

by vis52 8y ago

In Europe there are a lot of these so-called "research chemicals". They are basically illegal drugs but chemically they are different enough that they aren't illegal. I think the most well-known example is 1P-LSD.

derefr 8y ago
I would say that, if you're speaking of the whole category of "research chemicals"—rather than just the psychotropic ones—it's actually easier to get them in North America than in Europe. Many of the actual pharma research companies creating this stuff are in the US, so there's no customs between you and an order of random-drug-sample #91245096. And even when there is, both the US and Canada are basically allow-then-deny when it comes to drug importation: if they haven't seen it before—and it doesn't smell like a known-restricted compound to the dogs/scanners—they allow it in. While there are some pharma companies in the EU, there aren't many, and EU countries basically don't allow drugs to be shipped in from outside the EU, no matter what's in them. Indeed, you can't even order unscheduled, OTC drugs from other countries (e.g. Russia) into the EU. It's a big problem in the nootropics community. (Try to figure out how to get bromantane in Germany. I'll wait.)
- vis52 8y ago
  I didn't actually know that. I randomly browsed Reddit and wandered onto the 1P-LSD thread and saw that most of the stores mentioned were in Germany, Netherlands, Spain so I just assumed that it was more of a Europe thing. EDIT: Any ideas why I get "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."?
  - carapace 8y ago
    > Any ideas why I get "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."? You're probably posting too fast. (Sorry, i had to...) ;-)
    - vis52 8y ago
      I can't blame ya ;) TEST to see if it stopped happening
  - gowld 8y ago
    It's a function of your rate of posting and your total karma and your recent average post karma.
  - justherefortart 8y ago
    Not enough karma probably.
  - atomical 8y ago
    It's not true. Research companies aren't going to risk the wrath of the FDA by selling to the public.
- atomical 8y ago
  Pharma research companies don't sell direct to individuals. Most suppliers of research chemicals that are marketed to consumers in the US get their product from China. Whether they have it tested at an independent lab is up for debate.
nfbush 8y ago
1. Fent is not an RC, it is used in medicine 2. It's strongly regulated
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- kazinator 8y ago
  The story provides a figure depicting the structural formula of actual fentanyl, and next to it similar fentanyl-like molecules that are being trafficked. Caption: "Yan Xiaobing was indicted for distributing these similar compounds; making slight changes to the molecular structure can have unpredictable effects on potency." Also: [I]n recent years, rogue chemists have unearthed instructions for analogues that researchers discovered decades ago but never put into legitimate use. While Chinese authorities control fentanyl, they’ve been slow to ban new analogues.
thousandautumns 8y ago
There was a Times article several years ago about the rise of synthetic cannabis and they said legislators can't keep up with new chemical formulations. They take several months to study and ban one chemical, and the manufacturers turn around and tweak it slightly and it's a "new" drug that hasn't been made illegal yet.
- gowld 8y ago
  That's not quite right. Legislators certainly can keep up; all they need to do pass a broad ban on chemicals with the undesired empirical properties.
  - rhizome 8y ago
    You can't legislate a state of mind, and people have different reactions to different substances, so I'm a little confused as to what form this "broad ban" would take.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      Just ban chemicals that interact with certain receptors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_receptor_agonist#5-HT2_receptor_agonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_receptor_agonist#5-H...
      - sannee 8y ago
        That's extremely non-selective - for instance [1] is a random paper discussing ethanol interacting with the 5-HT2A receptors (at least if you are a male rat that is). It would likely also lead to unforeseen consequences. For example, the Czech government attempted to ban growing Phalaris, but had to backpedal as it's a common unassuming weed. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9347073 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9347073
    - chris_va 8y ago
      You could always ban the chemical scaffold.

by vis52 8y ago

derefr 8y ago

I would say that, if you're speaking of the whole category of "research chemicals"—rather than just the psychotropic ones—it's actually easier to get them in North America than in Europe. Many of the actual pharma research companies creating this stuff are in the US, so there's no customs between you and an order of random-drug-sample #91245096. And even when there is, both the US and Canada are basically allow-then-deny when it comes to drug importation: if they haven't seen it before—and it doesn't smell like a known-restricted compound to the dogs/scanners—they allow it in. While there are some pharma companies in the EU, there aren't many, and EU countries basically don't allow drugs to be shipped in from outside the EU, no matter what's in them. Indeed, you can't even order unscheduled, OTC drugs from other countries (e.g. Russia) into the EU. It's a big problem in the nootropics community. (Try to figure out how to get bromantane in Germany. I'll wait.)

vis52 8y ago
I didn't actually know that. I randomly browsed Reddit and wandered onto the 1P-LSD thread and saw that most of the stores mentioned were in Germany, Netherlands, Spain so I just assumed that it was more of a Europe thing. EDIT: Any ideas why I get "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."?
- carapace 8y ago
  > Any ideas why I get "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."? You're probably posting too fast. (Sorry, i had to...) ;-)
  - vis52 8y ago
    I can't blame ya ;) TEST to see if it stopped happening
- gowld 8y ago
  It's a function of your rate of posting and your total karma and your recent average post karma.
- justherefortart 8y ago
  Not enough karma probably.
- atomical 8y ago
  It's not true. Research companies aren't going to risk the wrath of the FDA by selling to the public.
atomical 8y ago
Pharma research companies don't sell direct to individuals. Most suppliers of research chemicals that are marketed to consumers in the US get their product from China. Whether they have it tested at an independent lab is up for debate.

nfbush 8y ago

1. Fent is not an RC, it is used in medicine 2. It's strongly regulated

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kazinator 8y ago
The story provides a figure depicting the structural formula of actual fentanyl, and next to it similar fentanyl-like molecules that are being trafficked. Caption: "Yan Xiaobing was indicted for distributing these similar compounds; making slight changes to the molecular structure can have unpredictable effects on potency." Also: [I]n recent years, rogue chemists have unearthed instructions for analogues that researchers discovered decades ago but never put into legitimate use. While Chinese authorities control fentanyl, they’ve been slow to ban new analogues.

thousandautumns 8y ago

There was a Times article several years ago about the rise of synthetic cannabis and they said legislators can't keep up with new chemical formulations. They take several months to study and ban one chemical, and the manufacturers turn around and tweak it slightly and it's a "new" drug that hasn't been made illegal yet.

gowld 8y ago
That's not quite right. Legislators certainly can keep up; all they need to do pass a broad ban on chemicals with the undesired empirical properties.
- rhizome 8y ago
  You can't legislate a state of mind, and people have different reactions to different substances, so I'm a little confused as to what form this "broad ban" would take.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Just ban chemicals that interact with certain receptors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_receptor_agonist#5-HT2_receptor_agonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_receptor_agonist#5-H...
    - sannee 8y ago
      That's extremely non-selective - for instance [1] is a random paper discussing ethanol interacting with the 5-HT2A receptors (at least if you are a male rat that is). It would likely also lead to unforeseen consequences. For example, the Czech government attempted to ban growing Phalaris, but had to backpedal as it's a common unassuming weed. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9347073 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9347073
  - chris_va 8y ago
    You could always ban the chemical scaffold.