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I've known some r/science mods. The removed posts were reinstated after the AmA had achieved enough traction on its own, things weren't left permanently deleted

by stu2010 8y ago

I've known some r/science mods. The removed posts were reinstated after the AmA had achieved enough traction on its own, things weren't left permanently deleted. It was still blatant vote manipulation, but the end result was science AmAs were regularly featured on r/all and also the default view of Reddit.

chomp 8y ago
That's what's crazy to me about this whole thing. Yes, morally and ethically, the ends don't justify the means. HOWEVER, the mods were manipulating votes to bring high profile visitors to Reddit, users were happy, Reddit execs (should be) happy that they were getting big time scientists posting, it seems like the only disconnect is how they did it. This finger wagging is just PR from Steve Huffman. If they really cared, they would have worked with moderators to create the toolsets to bring in more high quality content, and moderators wouldn't have to resort to desperate measures to bring in more eyeballs. "We're working on it" is a nothing statement. Instead, they're putting resources into a UI refresh that does not have very much support from the community.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  I think Huffman describes to a worldview where he wants to offer everyone the same tools. That's probably why he didn't like the methods /r/science used and why they added /r/popular to replace the defaults. This way any subreddit can get there.
  - chomp 8y ago
    I can completely understand that. Maybe I can understand that maybe a frontend redesign is a blocker for new tools. But you have a subreddit who has moderators who consistently organize high quality, low SNR ratio content, and who also depend on the front page to drive a large amount of their traffic. There has to have been a way to seamlessly get the custom tailored /r/popular stuff onto the mainpage without impacting these high content subreddits. I just don't think Reddit really put enough thought into this. Even something sort of hacky like "super mods" who could curate posts onto the front page. In the end, the /r/science mods had cobbled the tools to notice the drop of users (and Reddit staff didn't run enough analytics to gauge the impact of their decision), and the call was made. I don't think Reddit staff either has the numbers of admins or the tools to adequately make informed decisions about the impact of changes they make.
- 794CD01 8y ago
  What makes you think users were happy? If people liked that content so damn much, why was artificial vote manipulation needed to make it visible?
  - chomp 8y ago
    That's like saying "If users were really happy with a website, it wouldn't matter if Google delisted them because the users would just organically go to that site even if it's not in search results" Subreddits and Reddit are in a symbiotic relationship. Most subreddits depend on the mainpage to deliver them eyeballs. Some subreddits depend on those eyeballs they receive from the mainpage to create good content and PR for Reddit. Let's be honest, there's wealth of content on Reddit, enough so that users might not miss some content going missing randomly. <Personal opinion starts here> However, I personally believe that Reddit should cultivate stronger content than cat memes and animated images. Getting Stephen Hawking to answer questions from the public is, in my opinion (from a site culture and company PR perspective), more valuable than the 1000000th Star Wars prequel meme to appear on the front page.
    - 794CD01 8y ago
      It is like that in the sense that both are truer than you apparently give them credit for. How many people use, say, facebook or instagram from the dedicated phone app they sought out and installed vs searching for facebook in google and using the mobile browser site? Though I think a better comparison might be the eating habits one other people have made. Veggies might be better for you, but most people will choose to eat junk food. I just think that's sufficiently solved by natural selection.

chomp 8y ago

That's what's crazy to me about this whole thing. Yes, morally and ethically, the ends don't justify the means. HOWEVER, the mods were manipulating votes to bring high profile visitors to Reddit, users were happy, Reddit execs (should be) happy that they were getting big time scientists posting, it seems like the only disconnect is how they did it. This finger wagging is just PR from Steve Huffman. If they really cared, they would have worked with moderators to create the toolsets to bring in more high quality content, and moderators wouldn't have to resort to desperate measures to bring in more eyeballs. "We're working on it" is a nothing statement. Instead, they're putting resources into a UI refresh that does not have very much support from the community.

Mirioron 8y ago
I think Huffman describes to a worldview where he wants to offer everyone the same tools. That's probably why he didn't like the methods /r/science used and why they added /r/popular to replace the defaults. This way any subreddit can get there.
- chomp 8y ago
  I can completely understand that. Maybe I can understand that maybe a frontend redesign is a blocker for new tools. But you have a subreddit who has moderators who consistently organize high quality, low SNR ratio content, and who also depend on the front page to drive a large amount of their traffic. There has to have been a way to seamlessly get the custom tailored /r/popular stuff onto the mainpage without impacting these high content subreddits. I just don't think Reddit really put enough thought into this. Even something sort of hacky like "super mods" who could curate posts onto the front page. In the end, the /r/science mods had cobbled the tools to notice the drop of users (and Reddit staff didn't run enough analytics to gauge the impact of their decision), and the call was made. I don't think Reddit staff either has the numbers of admins or the tools to adequately make informed decisions about the impact of changes they make.
794CD01 8y ago
What makes you think users were happy? If people liked that content so damn much, why was artificial vote manipulation needed to make it visible?
- chomp 8y ago
  That's like saying "If users were really happy with a website, it wouldn't matter if Google delisted them because the users would just organically go to that site even if it's not in search results" Subreddits and Reddit are in a symbiotic relationship. Most subreddits depend on the mainpage to deliver them eyeballs. Some subreddits depend on those eyeballs they receive from the mainpage to create good content and PR for Reddit. Let's be honest, there's wealth of content on Reddit, enough so that users might not miss some content going missing randomly. <Personal opinion starts here> However, I personally believe that Reddit should cultivate stronger content than cat memes and animated images. Getting Stephen Hawking to answer questions from the public is, in my opinion (from a site culture and company PR perspective), more valuable than the 1000000th Star Wars prequel meme to appear on the front page.
  - 794CD01 8y ago
    It is like that in the sense that both are truer than you apparently give them credit for. How many people use, say, facebook or instagram from the dedicated phone app they sought out and installed vs searching for facebook in google and using the mobile browser site? Though I think a better comparison might be the eating habits one other people have made. Veggies might be better for you, but most people will choose to eat junk food. I just think that's sufficiently solved by natural selection.