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> I should be able to demand If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand the purge action from? There are an estimated ~10000 pseudoanonymous Bitcoin f

by jasode 8y ago

> I should be able to demand If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand the purge action from? There are an estimated ~10000 pseudoanonymous Bitcoin full nodes[1] all updating a ~170 GB append-only database[2]. Where does the GDPR compliance demand get sent? To the bitcoin user forum where some (not all) the developers hang out? Or to the maintainer of the github repo for C++ bitcoin client? What would be the procedure? Make those 10,000 nodes update and download new client software that "forks" the blockchain for each GDPR erasure request? Why would Chinese miners care about compliance with EU laws like GDPR? [1] https://bitnodes.earn.com/ https://bitnodes.earn.com/ [2] https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size

knorker 8y ago
> If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand it from? You're implying that everyone above board will avoid actually hosting the blockchain like the plague, and hand off the actual running to literally criminals (who are avoiding the law by hiding)? Fair enough. Those "lawful" companies are probably going to have a hard time defending their close relationship with criminals, in courts. > Where does the GDPR compliance demand get sent? To anyone with the data. If they're not hosting it, but are able to present it, then get warrants to track down source of data. > Make those 10,000 nodes update and download new client software that "forks" the blockchain for each GDPR erasure request? Not the law's problem. Not my problem. Cryptocurrencies don't have a natural right to exist, and in my view they are pure evil. > Why would Chinese miners care about compliance with EU laws like GDPR? They wouldn't. CoinBase would be in trouble having to explain why they do PII-laundering for Chinese (by EU) criminal enterprises though.
- fixermark 8y ago
  This suggests that the expected outcome will be for bitcoin mining to be an activity that exits the EU. ... and if the EU decides to crackdown on Bitcoin for being GDPR-non-compliant, then legitimate users in the EU will stop using it, but the GDPR really places no restrictions on something that doesn't do business in the EU. Since most coin mining happens in Asia anyway, it's entirely possible the BTC community could respond by just saying "BTC is not certified for use in Europe due to the GDPR." That would weaken BTC's value, but there are a lot of markets out there that aren't under the EU umbrella.
  - knorker 8y ago
    Maybe. But keep in mind that it also excludes all multinational companies from touching bitcoin. And if you are touching bitcoin and don't have EU presence, then you can't get EU presence.
Boulth 8y ago
GDPR does not apply to Bitcoin because Bitcoin is not a company. But it may apply to companies using Bitcoin. See https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rules-business-and-organisations/application-regulation/who-does-data-protection-law-apply_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...
hartator 8y ago
> If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand the purge action from? It's not doable for sure. However, one can argue you can find all the node IPs, subpoena their ISPs, sue every companies and individuals to compliance, jail the ones who don't obey, and blacklist IPs from non cooperative jurisdictions. Fun times.
- knorker 8y ago
  It's doable for a very useful definition of "do". A good comparison is "the pirate bay" and copyright infringement. You can't shut down all copyright infringement, but starting a company in 2018 to spread and share other people's copyright is not "a good idea", or at least you know what you'll be getting into. GDPR, likewise, is meant to stop dealing in other people's PII without consent (and consent can be withdrawn). When you see "PII", think copyrighted content. You can't say "because algorithms I'm not responsible!".
admax88q 8y ago
> If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand the purge action from? Any company that operates under jurisdiction of the GDPR and runs blockchain nodes? If they are unable to comply then they shouldn't run nodes. I don't see why they should be allowed to circumvent the law because they have "algorithms" or because untraceable parties or parties in other jurisdictions don't have to comply. Every few months some clever programmer thinks they can loophole the legal system with "algorithms." It doesn't work that way.

by jasode 8y ago

knorker 8y ago

> If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand it from? You're implying that everyone above board will avoid actually hosting the blockchain like the plague, and hand off the actual running to literally criminals (who are avoiding the law by hiding)? Fair enough. Those "lawful" companies are probably going to have a hard time defending their close relationship with criminals, in courts. > Where does the GDPR compliance demand get sent? To anyone with the data. If they're not hosting it, but are able to present it, then get warrants to track down source of data. > Make those 10,000 nodes update and download new client software that "forks" the blockchain for each GDPR erasure request? Not the law's problem. Not my problem. Cryptocurrencies don't have a natural right to exist, and in my view they are pure evil. > Why would Chinese miners care about compliance with EU laws like GDPR? They wouldn't. CoinBase would be in trouble having to explain why they do PII-laundering for Chinese (by EU) criminal enterprises though.

fixermark 8y ago
This suggests that the expected outcome will be for bitcoin mining to be an activity that exits the EU. ... and if the EU decides to crackdown on Bitcoin for being GDPR-non-compliant, then legitimate users in the EU will stop using it, but the GDPR really places no restrictions on something that doesn't do business in the EU. Since most coin mining happens in Asia anyway, it's entirely possible the BTC community could respond by just saying "BTC is not certified for use in Europe due to the GDPR." That would weaken BTC's value, but there are a lot of markets out there that aren't under the EU umbrella.
- knorker 8y ago
  Maybe. But keep in mind that it also excludes all multinational companies from touching bitcoin. And if you are touching bitcoin and don't have EU presence, then you can't get EU presence.

Boulth 8y ago

GDPR does not apply to Bitcoin because Bitcoin is not a company. But it may apply to companies using Bitcoin. See https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rules-business-and-organisations/application-regulation/who-does-data-protection-law-apply_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...

hartator 8y ago

> If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand the purge action from? It's not doable for sure. However, one can argue you can find all the node IPs, subpoena their ISPs, sue every companies and individuals to compliance, jail the ones who don't obey, and blacklist IPs from non cooperative jurisdictions. Fun times.

knorker 8y ago
It's doable for a very useful definition of "do". A good comparison is "the pirate bay" and copyright infringement. You can't shut down all copyright infringement, but starting a company in 2018 to spread and share other people's copyright is not "a good idea", or at least you know what you'll be getting into. GDPR, likewise, is meant to stop dealing in other people's PII without consent (and consent can be withdrawn). When you see "PII", think copyrighted content. You can't say "because algorithms I'm not responsible!".

admax88q 8y ago

> If GDPR applies to Bitcoin, _who_ would you demand the purge action from? Any company that operates under jurisdiction of the GDPR and runs blockchain nodes? If they are unable to comply then they shouldn't run nodes. I don't see why they should be allowed to circumvent the law because they have "algorithms" or because untraceable parties or parties in other jurisdictions don't have to comply. Every few months some clever programmer thinks they can loophole the legal system with "algorithms." It doesn't work that way.