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Kevin Fu and team at UMich's security & privacy group provided the most plausible explanation for what's going on here. https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductor

Kevin Fu and team at UMich's security & privacy group provided the most plausible explanation for what's going on here. https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/how-we-reverse-engineered-the-cuban-sonic-weapon-attack https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/how-we-reve...

jimrandomh 8y ago
tl;dr: Two ultrasound devices in the same room can interact to produce audible sound at dangerous volume under some circumstances. Ultrasound devices include bugs, microphone jammers, and many other things.
- mhb 8y ago
  Also tl;dr: They don't explain anything about how that can cause the observed symptoms.
  - tryAtHome 8y ago
    Probably because it's possible for people to implement these sort of weapons, and they don't want terrible people inflicting somewhat untraceable brain damage on unsuspecting victims, seemingly out of the blue. If they're leaving out explicit (or even the vaguest) details, it probably means that's the only thing keeping this out of the hands of weirdos. Also, other layers of secrecy are likely in play. It's probably already known that such weapons do exactly these things, but how would people even know, without published research? Top secret military experiments? Private research performed by military contractors? (in other words, takes one to know one)
- gruez 8y ago
  but if you have two 60db transmitters, the max you can produce (from my understanding) with constructive interference is 70db , since db is logarithmic. so does that mean the transmitters in question were already transmitting at 100+db?
  - jhpankow 8y ago
    2x 60dB is 63dB.
    - gruez 8y ago
      yeah sorry, got apparent loudness and amplitude confused.
    - basementcat 8y ago
      If the two sources are coherently phased up you can get 66 dB.
  - jimrandomh 8y ago
    Some ultrasound devices operate at power levels that would be dangerous by themselves if they were at a different frequency. Eg the article mentions "One advertised jammer emits 120-dB ultrasonic interference at a distance of 1 meter".
  - jcims 8y ago
    While true, the energy delivered to the subject depends on the radiation pattern. A 100W light bulb can help you pick out clothes in the closet, a 100W laser can cut steel (sorta).
    - fh973 8y ago
      A 100W laser cuts acrylic and wood, not steel. This is the power level of hobbyist laser cutters.
      - jcims 8y ago
        That's in part why I said 'sorta', but Kern actually sells a 150w CO2 laser that they will support for metal cutting applications (2mm for mild steel). I'll conveniently ignore the O2 assist for the sake of counterpoint. :)
Voloskaya 8y ago
Last time this research was mentioned, many were not impressed by it's overall quality. Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16597036 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16597036
ryanlol 8y ago
It's only the "most plausible" explanation due to the general lack of public explanations. It's still an extremely poor explanation.
23443463455 8y ago
I realize this will probably not be well received, but it’s quite interesting that these folks are by all appearances Chinese. China has been running all manner of intel and counterintelligence operations in the USA and all around the world. Reality is that it must be considered that these researchers are at the very least biased, if not operating on instruction to deflect and obscure and distract. I find it some of the most interesting aspects of the technological developments and expansion of the Internet, that it has caused people to become foolishly naive and gullible about reality as the Internet and games and fantasy have created whole generations of people who cannot fathom a world where people don’t all just get along and that therebreally are adversaries and bad people and those who are lying about being friendly. It’s a bizarre unilateral self-sacrifice and self-destruction and disarmament from a place of naivety and gullibleness that is seemingly as ill prepated to defend against being beguiled as native populations were genetically vulnerable to viruses that were introduced through contact. Western white liberalism suffers from pathological and psychotic altruism to a degree that will end up destroying the whole western world. We’ll see what follows in its stead, but no indications would suggest that it is generally a better outcome for anyone. It doesn’t matter whether you think I’m right or wrong; this is happening and it will devastate humanity because regardless of whether racists think white people are evil in spite of parasitizing them and everything we have to thank the values and societies of Europe for producing, you must think totalitarian Chinese dictatorship or Muslim theocratic totalitarianism or African primitivism are all legitimate and more beneficial systems to today’s circumstances.

jimrandomh 8y ago

tl;dr: Two ultrasound devices in the same room can interact to produce audible sound at dangerous volume under some circumstances. Ultrasound devices include bugs, microphone jammers, and many other things.

mhb 8y ago
Also tl;dr: They don't explain anything about how that can cause the observed symptoms.
- tryAtHome 8y ago
  Probably because it's possible for people to implement these sort of weapons, and they don't want terrible people inflicting somewhat untraceable brain damage on unsuspecting victims, seemingly out of the blue. If they're leaving out explicit (or even the vaguest) details, it probably means that's the only thing keeping this out of the hands of weirdos. Also, other layers of secrecy are likely in play. It's probably already known that such weapons do exactly these things, but how would people even know, without published research? Top secret military experiments? Private research performed by military contractors? (in other words, takes one to know one)
gruez 8y ago
but if you have two 60db transmitters, the max you can produce (from my understanding) with constructive interference is 70db , since db is logarithmic. so does that mean the transmitters in question were already transmitting at 100+db?
- jhpankow 8y ago
  2x 60dB is 63dB.
  - gruez 8y ago
    yeah sorry, got apparent loudness and amplitude confused.
  - basementcat 8y ago
    If the two sources are coherently phased up you can get 66 dB.
- jimrandomh 8y ago
  Some ultrasound devices operate at power levels that would be dangerous by themselves if they were at a different frequency. Eg the article mentions "One advertised jammer emits 120-dB ultrasonic interference at a distance of 1 meter".
- jcims 8y ago
  While true, the energy delivered to the subject depends on the radiation pattern. A 100W light bulb can help you pick out clothes in the closet, a 100W laser can cut steel (sorta).
  - fh973 8y ago
    A 100W laser cuts acrylic and wood, not steel. This is the power level of hobbyist laser cutters.
    - jcims 8y ago
      That's in part why I said 'sorta', but Kern actually sells a 150w CO2 laser that they will support for metal cutting applications (2mm for mild steel). I'll conveniently ignore the O2 assist for the sake of counterpoint. :)

Voloskaya 8y ago

Last time this research was mentioned, many were not impressed by it's overall quality. Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16597036 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16597036

ryanlol 8y ago

It's only the "most plausible" explanation due to the general lack of public explanations. It's still an extremely poor explanation.

23443463455 8y ago

I realize this will probably not be well received, but it’s quite interesting that these folks are by all appearances Chinese. China has been running all manner of intel and counterintelligence operations in the USA and all around the world. Reality is that it must be considered that these researchers are at the very least biased, if not operating on instruction to deflect and obscure and distract. I find it some of the most interesting aspects of the technological developments and expansion of the Internet, that it has caused people to become foolishly naive and gullible about reality as the Internet and games and fantasy have created whole generations of people who cannot fathom a world where people don’t all just get along and that therebreally are adversaries and bad people and those who are lying about being friendly. It’s a bizarre unilateral self-sacrifice and self-destruction and disarmament from a place of naivety and gullibleness that is seemingly as ill prepated to defend against being beguiled as native populations were genetically vulnerable to viruses that were introduced through contact. Western white liberalism suffers from pathological and psychotic altruism to a degree that will end up destroying the whole western world. We’ll see what follows in its stead, but no indications would suggest that it is generally a better outcome for anyone. It doesn’t matter whether you think I’m right or wrong; this is happening and it will devastate humanity because regardless of whether racists think white people are evil in spite of parasitizing them and everything we have to thank the values and societies of Europe for producing, you must think totalitarian Chinese dictatorship or Muslim theocratic totalitarianism or African primitivism are all legitimate and more beneficial systems to today’s circumstances.