4 ms·

They are related in that it's just a case of mass hysteria.

throwaway5752 8y ago
I wish I could be that confident about things that I don't have inside information about! Working against that theory is consistency of the reports, the physiological evidence, and the high likelihood that the affected would be high value espionage targets.
- cpncrunch 8y ago
  There isn't actually any physiological evidence in the China case. mTBI can only be diagnosed by symptoms; there are no biomarkers for diagnosing it. The media reports say the symptoms were "subtle and vague, but abnormal, sensations of sound and pressure" that lasted a year. That sounds entirely consistent with a psychiatric explanation. People working in embassies aren't somehow immune to psychiatric issues (and may in fact be more likely to experience things like this, due to the pressures of their work).
rjurney 8y ago
This does seem the most likely thing. A single traumatic brain injury in china being linked to the shenanigans in Cuba? Seems sketchy at best.
facetube 8y ago
You have no evidence to support this.
- cpncrunch 8y ago
  No, but there is no evidence to support the sonic weapon hypothesis either, and a psychiatric explanation does fit the facts a lot better. Why would a single person in the Chinese embassy suffer the symptoms for over a year, while no other employees experienced it?
  - facetube 8y ago
    You made a claim. Support it or withdraw it.
    - cpncrunch 8y ago
      The article made a claim. Im pointing out that it doesnt fit the given data.
      - facetube 8y ago
        Why do you believe this? Cite evidence. You're certainly doing no better than the article here.
        cpncrunch 8y ago
        Evidence for what? The article gives evidence that it just happened to one person. I'm using logic to show that that doesn't fit the model of a sonic weapon. Here is some evidence linking tinnitus to psychiatric disorders: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16844885 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16844885 "A close association between tinnitus and psychiatric disorders has been demonstrated".
        facetube 8y ago
        That's great, but you alleged this was the cause of a specific person's symptoms. Your citation does not support your claim – it's circumstantial and speculative.
        cpncrunch 8y ago
        >it's circumstantial and speculative So is the original allegation in the article. I'm saying that psychiatric explanation fits the facts better. If you have any evidence to the contrary, feel free to post it... Do you have something against a psychiatric explanation?
tlynchpin 8y ago
Just yesterday I listened to Skeptoid podcast episode on this topic [1] and today viola. The conclusion from Brian Dunning in that Skeptoid episode is also mass hysteria. I do also like the psyops disinfo theory - as stated elsewhere in this thread, suppose it was some other less respected nation that was making claims that their diplomats were victims of a mysterious sonic weapon. The claim would be poorly received. Personally there's a deeply appealing irony in the mass credulity being something like an even more massive mass hysteria. [1]: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4603 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4603

I wish I could be that confident about things that I don't have inside information about! Working against that theory is consistency of the reports, the physiological evidence, and the high likelihood that the affected would be high value espionage targets.

cpncrunch 8y ago
There isn't actually any physiological evidence in the China case. mTBI can only be diagnosed by symptoms; there are no biomarkers for diagnosing it. The media reports say the symptoms were "subtle and vague, but abnormal, sensations of sound and pressure" that lasted a year. That sounds entirely consistent with a psychiatric explanation. People working in embassies aren't somehow immune to psychiatric issues (and may in fact be more likely to experience things like this, due to the pressures of their work).

rjurney 8y ago

This does seem the most likely thing. A single traumatic brain injury in china being linked to the shenanigans in Cuba? Seems sketchy at best.

facetube 8y ago

You have no evidence to support this.

cpncrunch 8y ago
No, but there is no evidence to support the sonic weapon hypothesis either, and a psychiatric explanation does fit the facts a lot better. Why would a single person in the Chinese embassy suffer the symptoms for over a year, while no other employees experienced it?
- facetube 8y ago
  You made a claim. Support it or withdraw it.
  - cpncrunch 8y ago
    The article made a claim. Im pointing out that it doesnt fit the given data.
    - facetube 8y ago
      Why do you believe this? Cite evidence. You're certainly doing no better than the article here.
      - cpncrunch 8y ago
        Evidence for what? The article gives evidence that it just happened to one person. I'm using logic to show that that doesn't fit the model of a sonic weapon. Here is some evidence linking tinnitus to psychiatric disorders: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16844885 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16844885 "A close association between tinnitus and psychiatric disorders has been demonstrated".
        facetube 8y ago
        That's great, but you alleged this was the cause of a specific person's symptoms. Your citation does not support your claim – it's circumstantial and speculative.
        cpncrunch 8y ago
        >it's circumstantial and speculative So is the original allegation in the article. I'm saying that psychiatric explanation fits the facts better. If you have any evidence to the contrary, feel free to post it... Do you have something against a psychiatric explanation?

tlynchpin 8y ago

Just yesterday I listened to Skeptoid podcast episode on this topic [1] and today viola. The conclusion from Brian Dunning in that Skeptoid episode is also mass hysteria. I do also like the psyops disinfo theory - as stated elsewhere in this thread, suppose it was some other less respected nation that was making claims that their diplomats were victims of a mysterious sonic weapon. The claim would be poorly received. Personally there's a deeply appealing irony in the mass credulity being something like an even more massive mass hysteria. [1]: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4603 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4603