7 ms·

A New Kind of Science is on the iPad

34 points by nswanberg 16y ago

slpsys 16y ago
"The actual print production process was quite an adventure—going right to the edge of what was possible." I liked the book a lot, but have a hard time not seeing this as hyperbole. Yes, it's the printing industry..but it's just just diagrams and text; I don't remember anything that a few weeks of learning LaTeX couldn't accomplish?
- mikecane 16y ago
  He specifically mentioned the binding process to keep it at one volume.
- silvestrov 16y ago
  I think that he means getting print production in sufficient high dpi without getting e.g. unwanted moire patterns or blur of details. The postscript file might be conceptually simple, but there's a lot of weird problems when mass-printing in high quality, both dpi-wise and color-wise. edit: typo.
  - nswanberg 16y ago
    Note that the book itself had a build process! (which he linked to in the post) http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_build http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_build
    - silvestrov 16y ago
      Good old FrameMaker. How I miss you.
    - Erwin 16y ago
      Interestingly, the entire text of the book is right there on that page: just zoom in far enough (using some kind of Flash app): http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_poster http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_poster
Tichy 16y ago
I would have hoped for actual simulations instead of diagrams :-)
- nswanberg 16y ago
  It would be interesting to see how effective those programs would be if run on the device. I can't decide if I'd have found them enlightening or distracting. Setting aside Wolfram's book, I also wonder if Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, Abelson and Sussman's Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, or the Introduction to Algorithms books would benefit. We'll see soon I'm sure. But getting back to the static version, certainly one benefit is to avoid carrying the dead tree versions, as Wolfram pointed out.
  - glhaynes 16y ago
    When I think "which of my college classes could I have learned more from if I'd had an iPad version of the textbook", data structures and algorithms stands out the most. I'd love to see a really good adaptation of an already-good static textbook in these fields... I'm not in school anymore, but I might read it just for fun.
    - jacobolus 16y ago
      Yes. Both data structures and CS theory (making proofs about different computation models, &c.) courses would benefit tremendously even from having better PC/web-based visualizations/simulations. Stepping through the behavior of turing machines, or graph searching algorithms, or what have you, is much much clearer on a computer than on a blackboard or paper.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    Come to think about it, it is actually kind of exciting. You could also have a REPL for every example and solve the problems on the spot (and get immediate feedback).
    - nswanberg 16y ago
travisjeffery 16y ago
For people who've read 'A New Kind of Science' on here...what did you think of it? I find that people's opinions of the book are quite polarized either they found it fascinating or were put-off by Wolfram's self-congratulating. So what does HN think?
- danbmil99 16y ago
  There is plenty to admire in the book but Wolfram's self-aggrandizing and complete lack of protocol wrt credit to others in the field is terribly off-putting. I think this book could have had far more impact if he had just bothered to tone down his ego and be charitable about prior work (whether or not he developed certain ideas independently; that doesn't excuse you from being honest about who did the work first)
  - mithaler 16y ago
    On that note, here's one well-written but scathing review by a UMichigan professor who goes into that among other things: http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram/ http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram/
    - jacobolus 16y ago
      Hilarious: “I'd have paid a lot to see Wolfram and Jacques Derrida go one-on-one.” Cosma Shalizi is a gem.
- codeflo 16y ago
  I think the split is between people who knew about cellular automata before reading the book, maybe even simulated their own cellular automata, and those who weren't familiar with the concept before. If you're in the former group, you'll find a lot of needless hyperbole about fairly standard results that were known for decades. Plus a few interesting ideas mixed in between. Plus even more hyperbole. If you're in the latter group, and didn't really know what cellular automata are about, your mind will be blown (and rightly so, these things are cool), and you won't mind Wolfram's tone so much.
bgutierrez 16y ago
Summary: So far, only the iPad has been an awesome enough e-reader to make Stephen Wolfram willing to release "A New Kind of Science" to be viewed on it.
jackfoxy 16y ago
I found the footnotes, which are about as long as the text, to be a very interesting stand-alone read. Wolfram's self-congratulating doesn't bother me, although his work sometimes borders on confusing a posteriori computer models with reality. (Not that he's the only one who does that.) I highly recommend NKS.
billmcneale 16y ago
What's the point of an iPad version? At least in book form, it's useful as a door stop.

34 points by nswanberg 16y ago

"The actual print production process was quite an adventure—going right to the edge of what was possible." I liked the book a lot, but have a hard time not seeing this as hyperbole. Yes, it's the printing industry..but it's just just diagrams and text; I don't remember anything that a few weeks of learning LaTeX couldn't accomplish?

mikecane 16y ago
He specifically mentioned the binding process to keep it at one volume.
silvestrov 16y ago
I think that he means getting print production in sufficient high dpi without getting e.g. unwanted moire patterns or blur of details. The postscript file might be conceptually simple, but there's a lot of weird problems when mass-printing in high quality, both dpi-wise and color-wise. edit: typo.
- nswanberg 16y ago
  Note that the book itself had a build process! (which he linked to in the post) http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_build http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_build
  - silvestrov 16y ago
    Good old FrameMaker. How I miss you.
  - Erwin 16y ago
    Interestingly, the entire text of the book is right there on that page: just zoom in far enough (using some kind of Flash app): http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_poster http://www.stephenwolfram.com/scrapbook/page8/#2002_poster

Tichy 16y ago

I would have hoped for actual simulations instead of diagrams :-)

nswanberg 16y ago
It would be interesting to see how effective those programs would be if run on the device. I can't decide if I'd have found them enlightening or distracting. Setting aside Wolfram's book, I also wonder if Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, Abelson and Sussman's Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, or the Introduction to Algorithms books would benefit. We'll see soon I'm sure. But getting back to the static version, certainly one benefit is to avoid carrying the dead tree versions, as Wolfram pointed out.
- glhaynes 16y ago
  When I think "which of my college classes could I have learned more from if I'd had an iPad version of the textbook", data structures and algorithms stands out the most. I'd love to see a really good adaptation of an already-good static textbook in these fields... I'm not in school anymore, but I might read it just for fun.
  - jacobolus 16y ago
    Yes. Both data structures and CS theory (making proofs about different computation models, &c.) courses would benefit tremendously even from having better PC/web-based visualizations/simulations. Stepping through the behavior of turing machines, or graph searching algorithms, or what have you, is much much clearer on a computer than on a blackboard or paper.
- Tichy 16y ago
  Come to think about it, it is actually kind of exciting. You could also have a REPL for every example and solve the problems on the spot (and get immediate feedback).
  - nswanberg 16y ago

travisjeffery 16y ago

For people who've read 'A New Kind of Science' on here...what did you think of it? I find that people's opinions of the book are quite polarized either they found it fascinating or were put-off by Wolfram's self-congratulating. So what does HN think?

danbmil99 16y ago
There is plenty to admire in the book but Wolfram's self-aggrandizing and complete lack of protocol wrt credit to others in the field is terribly off-putting. I think this book could have had far more impact if he had just bothered to tone down his ego and be charitable about prior work (whether or not he developed certain ideas independently; that doesn't excuse you from being honest about who did the work first)
- mithaler 16y ago
  On that note, here's one well-written but scathing review by a UMichigan professor who goes into that among other things: http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram/ http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram/
  - jacobolus 16y ago
    Hilarious: “I'd have paid a lot to see Wolfram and Jacques Derrida go one-on-one.” Cosma Shalizi is a gem.
codeflo 16y ago
I think the split is between people who knew about cellular automata before reading the book, maybe even simulated their own cellular automata, and those who weren't familiar with the concept before. If you're in the former group, you'll find a lot of needless hyperbole about fairly standard results that were known for decades. Plus a few interesting ideas mixed in between. Plus even more hyperbole. If you're in the latter group, and didn't really know what cellular automata are about, your mind will be blown (and rightly so, these things are cool), and you won't mind Wolfram's tone so much.

bgutierrez 16y ago

Summary: So far, only the iPad has been an awesome enough e-reader to make Stephen Wolfram willing to release "A New Kind of Science" to be viewed on it.

jackfoxy 16y ago

I found the footnotes, which are about as long as the text, to be a very interesting stand-alone read. Wolfram's self-congratulating doesn't bother me, although his work sometimes borders on confusing a posteriori computer models with reality. (Not that he's the only one who does that.) I highly recommend NKS.

billmcneale 16y ago

What's the point of an iPad version? At least in book form, it's useful as a door stop.