4 ms·

Can't the device be reset another way? Im sure most phone theft is to sell hardware, not get data.

gambiting 8y ago
Nope, at least not on the devices equipped with the secure enclave. The device can still be sold for parts, but so far I don't think there is a technical solution to unlocking the system or even wiping it.
- jasonkostempski 8y ago
  Hmm, sounds like a fun DOS attack for frienemies. Personally, I'd rather take the risk. Is there a way to disable that?
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Only by not setting a passcode.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    If everything were backed up to iCloud (it is by default), you can literally throw your device in the trash, get a new one, log in and the new device will look and act like the old device with all of your data in check. The issue was that she had maxed out her icloud account and kept dismissing messages. The blame for that is shared between her parent not ponying up $10 a month for 2TB of storage that can be shared by the whole family and Apple's stingy free tier that only gives you 5Gb a month per account no matter how many devices you have.
    - jasonkostempski 8y ago
      I know that, its the hardware I care about, its not cheap. And what if you buy used? There no papers to prove you bought it to Apple. And the fact there's a way for Apple to reset it, but not me, is also highly annoying. To me, the risk of setting a pin is greater than my phone getting stolen or my data being exposed. Also, $10 a month is a rediculous price, a kid will fill up 2TB within a year and then managing what's in the cloud and whats on the device will be just as big a pain as doing your own backups, which would be extremely easy and cheap if Apple would expose the file system in a standard way (without requiring iTunes) over usb like a proper device thats not trying to sell you cloud storage.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Yes you can reset the device yourself. (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204306 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204306). The device will be locked to your account and you have to use your account credentials to use it. In this case, you're talking about backing up what's on your device. No device has 2TB of data to backup. If Apple exposed the file system unencrypted, that kind of defeats the whole purpose of encryption. How many people are really going to manually connect to a computer and backup? What's the state of backing up Android? Can you just log in to a new Android phone and have all of your data - including app data restored?
        jasonkostempski 8y ago
        Looks like I misunderstood about the resetting. So the cloud storage is only to back up what can fit on your devices? I think the cloud storage required to backup/transfer whatever device you purchased should be free especially at the premiums they charge for a few extra built-in GBs. Charging for proper backups, that would let users easily take/copy their files somewhere else, I'm all for. Android exposes the file system when you explicitly allow it from the device. Obviously that doesn't help when you've locked yourself out, but that's why you do regular backups. iOS does the same thing, but only for the DCIM folder and it's not in a standard way, Linux requires special software to access it and that's usually broken for a while after iOS updates. I backup my family photos and video locally and in cold storage at $0.78 a month for 174 GB. The process would only take me 5 minutes of work a month if it wasn't for 1 or more iOS devices misbehaving every time I try. I use Android but I'm not sure on the state of their backup, I don't have any Google Cloud stuff enabled. I backup up my entire phone once in a while if I have data I think I'll care about that isn't photo or video (which is rare in my case). All this ranting is really only because it's very frustrating that I can't control my mobile devices like I can my PCs. Android is better than iOS in that regard, but far from perfect.
        scarface74 8y ago
        iCloud is used for more than just backing up your device. It can also be used like Dropbox. You can backup your data on Android, but you can't just backup and restore the app data. Google tried that with apps that weren't built for it and it was an awful mess now it's opt-in and not all apps support it (https://www.howtogeek.com/140376/htg-explains-what-android-data-is-backed-up-automatically/ https://www.howtogeek.com/140376/htg-explains-what-android-d...) If my phone is dropped into a lake, I go into the Apple store and buy another one. My settings, apps, location of my apps on my home screen etc. will be just like I left it. Some apps rightfully choose for files not be backed up to iCloud. For instance it would make no sense for my podcasts to be backed up to iCloud. As far as not having enough storage to backup your device - I agree. That's why I said Apple's free tier is "stingy".
    - wombatpm 8y ago
      Actually that is not true. They talk like it is a full incremental backup, but it is not. Apple will maintain a list of the apps you have installed. If that app is no longer available in the app store then you are out of luck. Sure pictures contacts and downloads are available, but settings within apps not so much. The move to iCloud over PC backups is great for Apple (the got my money for the 2TB plan, but only sorta good for consumers.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        It's not the app they backup. It's the data inside the apps. The restore process redownloads the apps and restores the data inside the app. Each app has three kinds of storage: - files that should be copied to iCloud. - files that should be permanently stored on the device - temporary files that can be deleted by the OS to clear space. The developer decides which types of files should have which retention policy. iCloud only backs up the first kinds of files per app.

Nope, at least not on the devices equipped with the secure enclave. The device can still be sold for parts, but so far I don't think there is a technical solution to unlocking the system or even wiping it.

jasonkostempski 8y ago
Hmm, sounds like a fun DOS attack for frienemies. Personally, I'd rather take the risk. Is there a way to disable that?
- ghaff 8y ago
  Only by not setting a passcode.
- scarface74 8y ago
  If everything were backed up to iCloud (it is by default), you can literally throw your device in the trash, get a new one, log in and the new device will look and act like the old device with all of your data in check. The issue was that she had maxed out her icloud account and kept dismissing messages. The blame for that is shared between her parent not ponying up $10 a month for 2TB of storage that can be shared by the whole family and Apple's stingy free tier that only gives you 5Gb a month per account no matter how many devices you have.
  - jasonkostempski 8y ago
    I know that, its the hardware I care about, its not cheap. And what if you buy used? There no papers to prove you bought it to Apple. And the fact there's a way for Apple to reset it, but not me, is also highly annoying. To me, the risk of setting a pin is greater than my phone getting stolen or my data being exposed. Also, $10 a month is a rediculous price, a kid will fill up 2TB within a year and then managing what's in the cloud and whats on the device will be just as big a pain as doing your own backups, which would be extremely easy and cheap if Apple would expose the file system in a standard way (without requiring iTunes) over usb like a proper device thats not trying to sell you cloud storage.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Yes you can reset the device yourself. (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204306 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204306). The device will be locked to your account and you have to use your account credentials to use it. In this case, you're talking about backing up what's on your device. No device has 2TB of data to backup. If Apple exposed the file system unencrypted, that kind of defeats the whole purpose of encryption. How many people are really going to manually connect to a computer and backup? What's the state of backing up Android? Can you just log in to a new Android phone and have all of your data - including app data restored?
      - jasonkostempski 8y ago
        Looks like I misunderstood about the resetting. So the cloud storage is only to back up what can fit on your devices? I think the cloud storage required to backup/transfer whatever device you purchased should be free especially at the premiums they charge for a few extra built-in GBs. Charging for proper backups, that would let users easily take/copy their files somewhere else, I'm all for. Android exposes the file system when you explicitly allow it from the device. Obviously that doesn't help when you've locked yourself out, but that's why you do regular backups. iOS does the same thing, but only for the DCIM folder and it's not in a standard way, Linux requires special software to access it and that's usually broken for a while after iOS updates. I backup my family photos and video locally and in cold storage at $0.78 a month for 174 GB. The process would only take me 5 minutes of work a month if it wasn't for 1 or more iOS devices misbehaving every time I try. I use Android but I'm not sure on the state of their backup, I don't have any Google Cloud stuff enabled. I backup up my entire phone once in a while if I have data I think I'll care about that isn't photo or video (which is rare in my case). All this ranting is really only because it's very frustrating that I can't control my mobile devices like I can my PCs. Android is better than iOS in that regard, but far from perfect.
        scarface74 8y ago
        iCloud is used for more than just backing up your device. It can also be used like Dropbox. You can backup your data on Android, but you can't just backup and restore the app data. Google tried that with apps that weren't built for it and it was an awful mess now it's opt-in and not all apps support it (https://www.howtogeek.com/140376/htg-explains-what-android-data-is-backed-up-automatically/ https://www.howtogeek.com/140376/htg-explains-what-android-d...) If my phone is dropped into a lake, I go into the Apple store and buy another one. My settings, apps, location of my apps on my home screen etc. will be just like I left it. Some apps rightfully choose for files not be backed up to iCloud. For instance it would make no sense for my podcasts to be backed up to iCloud. As far as not having enough storage to backup your device - I agree. That's why I said Apple's free tier is "stingy".
  - wombatpm 8y ago
    Actually that is not true. They talk like it is a full incremental backup, but it is not. Apple will maintain a list of the apps you have installed. If that app is no longer available in the app store then you are out of luck. Sure pictures contacts and downloads are available, but settings within apps not so much. The move to iCloud over PC backups is great for Apple (the got my money for the 2TB plan, but only sorta good for consumers.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      It's not the app they backup. It's the data inside the apps. The restore process redownloads the apps and restores the data inside the app. Each app has three kinds of storage: - files that should be copied to iCloud. - files that should be permanently stored on the device - temporary files that can be deleted by the OS to clear space. The developer decides which types of files should have which retention policy. iCloud only backs up the first kinds of files per app.