3 ms·

I'm struggling to see what massive wins you are referring to here. The only 'win' I can think of of the top of my head was the UK referendum, which was 52/48 i

I'm struggling to see what massive wins you are referring to here. The only 'win' I can think of of the top of my head was the UK referendum, which was 52/48 in favour of leaving. Polls taken now suggest that people are now mostly against leaving but the referendum result still stands.

sparkling 8y ago
Are you just going to ignore all the countries i listed? Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic all have goverments in place that reject giving more power to the EU and refuse to take in refugees. In France, Marie Le Pen did not win a majority but had big gains. And Macron, well, he seems to like the EU as long as someone else (Germany) picks up the bill. Italy: same as France.
- rusk 8y ago
  reject[ing] giving more power to the EU is not the same as being anti-EU. I think there's a broad understanding that the EU isn't perfect, but that it's better than not having an EU. Britain is the one exception to this of course, but that depends on who you ask ... but even of the 50% who voted to leave, a large %age of those didn't really take stock of what it entailed.
- jorvi 8y ago
  In The Netherlands Geert Wilders' PVV became the second party by size, but the rest of the mainstream parties refuse to form a coalition with them so they are pretty much always in the opposition. I don't like that type of party (we had the LPF, then PVV and in the future maybe FvD) but I have to admit that as long as they don't actually govern they have a very useful function in that they often point out painful truths or situations that the other parties won't touch for fear of seeming politically incorrect.
- ionised 8y ago
  That's four countries out of 28, and the Polish government is losing popularity (my girlfriend is Polish, I visit Poland often) due to its ultra-conservative Catholic views. Poland was one of the most pro-EU countries in the union, and it will be again. It has seen the benefits firsthand, regardless of a vocal minority of xenophobes. Le Pen had big gains yes, and still lost because the country decided to vote tactically, together to stop a fascist getting any power. She lost. Hungary I'll give you, because it has been hardcore right-wing for a long while and massively corrupt.
KozmoNau7 8y ago
Hungary elected Viktor Orbán, a notoriously anti-EU, anti-immigrants hatemonger.
- vixen99 8y ago
  How about arguing specifics instead of merely emoting? For instance, what does a national border mean to you? Is it totally meaningless? What is a nation? Does it share any characteristics at all, with the concept of a family? Should a country not set any requirements for entry or should it adopt a free-for-all with no barriers? Actually I'm not taking sides here but merely suggesting it would be instructive to see a salient point or two in support of your evident take on Orbán. There are lots of people I don't like but who gives a damn if I don't offer reasons for my preferences that show some evidence of intelligent analysis on my part?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Orbán's flirting with far-right groups, his opposition to everything related to EU and his extremely nationalistic bent are all well-known. He has a history of policies and laws that are overtly nationalistic and isolationist. Which is not a healthy approach in an increasingly global politic climate. His policies and speeches bring definite reminders of nationalistic policies past, of using immigrants as refugees and scapegoats for everything wrong in a society, as well as appealing to traditionalist values, the "things were much better in the old days" rose-tinted glasses mentality. It is a symptom of being stuck in the past, a wish to bring society back to the imagined "good old days", which never actually existed in the first place. There are also the obvious calls to maintaining traditions and cultural identity that is "under attack" and in many cases were actually imported from other cultures and assimilated over decades. It's the exact same story with every other nationalistic politic party, in every European country.

sparkling 8y ago

Are you just going to ignore all the countries i listed? Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic all have goverments in place that reject giving more power to the EU and refuse to take in refugees. In France, Marie Le Pen did not win a majority but had big gains. And Macron, well, he seems to like the EU as long as someone else (Germany) picks up the bill. Italy: same as France.

rusk 8y ago
reject[ing] giving more power to the EU is not the same as being anti-EU. I think there's a broad understanding that the EU isn't perfect, but that it's better than not having an EU. Britain is the one exception to this of course, but that depends on who you ask ... but even of the 50% who voted to leave, a large %age of those didn't really take stock of what it entailed.
jorvi 8y ago
In The Netherlands Geert Wilders' PVV became the second party by size, but the rest of the mainstream parties refuse to form a coalition with them so they are pretty much always in the opposition. I don't like that type of party (we had the LPF, then PVV and in the future maybe FvD) but I have to admit that as long as they don't actually govern they have a very useful function in that they often point out painful truths or situations that the other parties won't touch for fear of seeming politically incorrect.
ionised 8y ago
That's four countries out of 28, and the Polish government is losing popularity (my girlfriend is Polish, I visit Poland often) due to its ultra-conservative Catholic views. Poland was one of the most pro-EU countries in the union, and it will be again. It has seen the benefits firsthand, regardless of a vocal minority of xenophobes. Le Pen had big gains yes, and still lost because the country decided to vote tactically, together to stop a fascist getting any power. She lost. Hungary I'll give you, because it has been hardcore right-wing for a long while and massively corrupt.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

Hungary elected Viktor Orbán, a notoriously anti-EU, anti-immigrants hatemonger.

vixen99 8y ago
How about arguing specifics instead of merely emoting? For instance, what does a national border mean to you? Is it totally meaningless? What is a nation? Does it share any characteristics at all, with the concept of a family? Should a country not set any requirements for entry or should it adopt a free-for-all with no barriers? Actually I'm not taking sides here but merely suggesting it would be instructive to see a salient point or two in support of your evident take on Orbán. There are lots of people I don't like but who gives a damn if I don't offer reasons for my preferences that show some evidence of intelligent analysis on my part?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Orbán's flirting with far-right groups, his opposition to everything related to EU and his extremely nationalistic bent are all well-known. He has a history of policies and laws that are overtly nationalistic and isolationist. Which is not a healthy approach in an increasingly global politic climate. His policies and speeches bring definite reminders of nationalistic policies past, of using immigrants as refugees and scapegoats for everything wrong in a society, as well as appealing to traditionalist values, the "things were much better in the old days" rose-tinted glasses mentality. It is a symptom of being stuck in the past, a wish to bring society back to the imagined "good old days", which never actually existed in the first place. There are also the obvious calls to maintaining traditions and cultural identity that is "under attack" and in many cases were actually imported from other cultures and assimilated over decades. It's the exact same story with every other nationalistic politic party, in every European country.