3 ms·

By large-but-immaterial, do you mean the money escaped via tax fraud and illegal tax cuts?

mikejb 8y ago
'fraud' and 'illegal' might be problematic words here. The tax evasion schemes used by large corporations are often considered exploits of loopholes - i.e. technically legal. Countries try to offer companies a system to provide ridiculously low tax rates for larger regions, because if they get 1% of the revenue of the entire region it's more beneficial to them than getting 20% of their local revenue (numbers are fictional here). That's partly also a reason why e.g. Ireland is fighting on Apple's side on the $13bn ruling, despite them loosing out on $13bn. They'd loose the ability to guarantee companies a low tax rate, which is worth far more.
- askmike 8y ago
  > 'fraud' and 'illegal' might be problematic words here. The tax evasion schemes used by large corporations are often considered exploits of loopholes - i.e. technically legal. In your example on Apple this is not clear at all: there are two legal systems at play (the Irish one and the EU one). Apple is only playing by the rules of the Irish one. The problem comes from the EU saying that the Irish laws are not within the EU framework and thus not allowed. Apple is very much doing not legal things from a perspective of EU law, hence the fine.
  - rusk 8y ago
    Wrong. Ireland's competition rules are harmonised with EU rules. Not by dictat either, it's a condition of signing the various European treaties that you will implement particular laws that conform to certain principles. In this particular case Ireland had broken her own laws on competition. Like with so much of the skullduggery that goes on in Ireland, it took an outside agency to blow the whistle.
    - rusk 8y ago
      it's a condition of signing the various European treaties These treaties by the way, are passed with popular consent. As a constitutional democracy Ireland requires a Referendum for any constitutional change, which is always necessary when signing up to anything that says we'll conform to some outside agency.
  - mikejb 8y ago
    I agree that it is not very clear - which is why I wrote "are often considered" etc. Also the Apple example was brought up to explain a nations' interest in low tax rates, not about whether they're legal or not. Parent was the one making definitive claims about fraud and illegal actions.
- rmc 8y ago
  Ireland also benefits from lots of highly paid, highly skilled employees, which it can tax, and also people are happy because there are jobs and oppertunities in Ireland. Many of the big name US tech companies in Ireland employee thousands of people each.

'fraud' and 'illegal' might be problematic words here. The tax evasion schemes used by large corporations are often considered exploits of loopholes - i.e. technically legal. Countries try to offer companies a system to provide ridiculously low tax rates for larger regions, because if they get 1% of the revenue of the entire region it's more beneficial to them than getting 20% of their local revenue (numbers are fictional here). That's partly also a reason why e.g. Ireland is fighting on Apple's side on the $13bn ruling, despite them loosing out on $13bn. They'd loose the ability to guarantee companies a low tax rate, which is worth far more.

askmike 8y ago
> 'fraud' and 'illegal' might be problematic words here. The tax evasion schemes used by large corporations are often considered exploits of loopholes - i.e. technically legal. In your example on Apple this is not clear at all: there are two legal systems at play (the Irish one and the EU one). Apple is only playing by the rules of the Irish one. The problem comes from the EU saying that the Irish laws are not within the EU framework and thus not allowed. Apple is very much doing not legal things from a perspective of EU law, hence the fine.
- rusk 8y ago
  Wrong. Ireland's competition rules are harmonised with EU rules. Not by dictat either, it's a condition of signing the various European treaties that you will implement particular laws that conform to certain principles. In this particular case Ireland had broken her own laws on competition. Like with so much of the skullduggery that goes on in Ireland, it took an outside agency to blow the whistle.
  - rusk 8y ago
    it's a condition of signing the various European treaties These treaties by the way, are passed with popular consent. As a constitutional democracy Ireland requires a Referendum for any constitutional change, which is always necessary when signing up to anything that says we'll conform to some outside agency.
- mikejb 8y ago
  I agree that it is not very clear - which is why I wrote "are often considered" etc. Also the Apple example was brought up to explain a nations' interest in low tax rates, not about whether they're legal or not. Parent was the one making definitive claims about fraud and illegal actions.
rmc 8y ago
Ireland also benefits from lots of highly paid, highly skilled employees, which it can tax, and also people are happy because there are jobs and oppertunities in Ireland. Many of the big name US tech companies in Ireland employee thousands of people each.