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I can imagine a world in which basically all of Manhattan's streets are open only to autonomous vehicles. I wonder what sorts of redesigns we would do if all tr

I can imagine a world in which basically all of Manhattan's streets are open only to autonomous vehicles. I wonder what sorts of redesigns we would do if all trips were effectively one-way and most cars were the size of a Smart fortwo. I think we're many years and a couple trillion in infrastructure retooling from this reality. But when my infant daughter is my age, I think this is what NYC will be like, assuming society as we know it keeps progressing, while diffusing the many potential catastrophes we've set up for ourselves.

hawski 8y ago
I think that bicycles and other human powered (also with electric assist) vehicles or small electric vehicles like scooters are the best short term future we can ask for. And working public transport - who cares if it's autonomous out not. There are already places that work with these. I find it strange that you mention Smart Fortwo, which is not particularly small when one compares it to VW Golf for example. Toyota IQ would be better example, it's not much bigger than Fortwo, but has four seats.
- acjohnson55 8y ago
  It was just the smallest car I could think of. Hmm, yeah, the idea of bike and scooter vehicles makes some sense, although you would lose the shelter from the elements, the ability to travel without your eyes on the road, and the ability to travel in groups. So both options are probably needed, although right of ways will be less efficient if heavily shared by autonomous vehicles and human-powered transport.
- sparkzilla 8y ago
  I wish people would stop with this. Human-powered transportation for mass transit is slow, does not work over long distances, requires effort that most people are not willing to provide, and is a poor choice in the rain or snow or cold.
cryptonector 8y ago
This. Imagine removing street-side parking. Not all at once. First on some key streets, then every 5 or so streets, and so on. Eventually, perhaps a couple of decades from now, there could be no daytime street-side parking (autonomous vehicles "sleeping" in the erstwhile parking spots at night). On many streets in NYC removing street-side parking will triple bandwidth. This could be piloted now, though without autonomous vehicles. And perhaps some such streets could be limited to access by buses, taxis, and limousines (uber, lyft, ...). Of course, selling this to voters will be impossible for a while yet. Once we get autonomous cars though, this concept will become very tempting.
- acjohnson55 8y ago
  You'd still need to allow AVs to stop. But in my conception, the vehicles aren't so much "autonomous" as they are routed. The routing algorithm would be able to prepare all the vehicles an arbitrary distance away for a briefly blocked lane. I think a lot of redesign would have to happen, realistically, to try to account for all sorts of exceptions. But it still feels like we could have a far more flexible and efficient transportation infrastructure than we do now if a whole lot of things we take for granted coudl be revisited.
  - codyb 8y ago
    Yea I was always thinking you’d have a portion of each block set aside for loading/unloading. Would create some funneling issues though. It’s an awesome amount of space which could be reclaimed for pedistrian and bicicle usage though.
stephen_g 8y ago
The problem is always density. For example, the new 345 class train that will be used on the Crossrail Elizabeth Line in London is as long as 82 Smart fortwos placed back to back, but carries up to 1500 people. Cars are extremely convenient and comfortable, but an extremely space inefficient way of moving large numbers of people. Even with autonomous vehicles, you still have hard limits on how many vehicles per hour you can physically move through any point.

hawski 8y ago

I think that bicycles and other human powered (also with electric assist) vehicles or small electric vehicles like scooters are the best short term future we can ask for. And working public transport - who cares if it's autonomous out not. There are already places that work with these. I find it strange that you mention Smart Fortwo, which is not particularly small when one compares it to VW Golf for example. Toyota IQ would be better example, it's not much bigger than Fortwo, but has four seats.

acjohnson55 8y ago
It was just the smallest car I could think of. Hmm, yeah, the idea of bike and scooter vehicles makes some sense, although you would lose the shelter from the elements, the ability to travel without your eyes on the road, and the ability to travel in groups. So both options are probably needed, although right of ways will be less efficient if heavily shared by autonomous vehicles and human-powered transport.
sparkzilla 8y ago
I wish people would stop with this. Human-powered transportation for mass transit is slow, does not work over long distances, requires effort that most people are not willing to provide, and is a poor choice in the rain or snow or cold.

cryptonector 8y ago

This. Imagine removing street-side parking. Not all at once. First on some key streets, then every 5 or so streets, and so on. Eventually, perhaps a couple of decades from now, there could be no daytime street-side parking (autonomous vehicles "sleeping" in the erstwhile parking spots at night). On many streets in NYC removing street-side parking will triple bandwidth. This could be piloted now, though without autonomous vehicles. And perhaps some such streets could be limited to access by buses, taxis, and limousines (uber, lyft, ...). Of course, selling this to voters will be impossible for a while yet. Once we get autonomous cars though, this concept will become very tempting.

acjohnson55 8y ago
You'd still need to allow AVs to stop. But in my conception, the vehicles aren't so much "autonomous" as they are routed. The routing algorithm would be able to prepare all the vehicles an arbitrary distance away for a briefly blocked lane. I think a lot of redesign would have to happen, realistically, to try to account for all sorts of exceptions. But it still feels like we could have a far more flexible and efficient transportation infrastructure than we do now if a whole lot of things we take for granted coudl be revisited.
- codyb 8y ago
  Yea I was always thinking you’d have a portion of each block set aside for loading/unloading. Would create some funneling issues though. It’s an awesome amount of space which could be reclaimed for pedistrian and bicicle usage though.

stephen_g 8y ago

The problem is always density. For example, the new 345 class train that will be used on the Crossrail Elizabeth Line in London is as long as 82 Smart fortwos placed back to back, but carries up to 1500 people. Cars are extremely convenient and comfortable, but an extremely space inefficient way of moving large numbers of people. Even with autonomous vehicles, you still have hard limits on how many vehicles per hour you can physically move through any point.