5 ms·

Despite of all these realities/bubbles you described above (assuming most of them are true/accurate), Tesla led the way of electrification of transportation ind

by devy 8y ago

Despite of all these realities/bubbles you described above (assuming most of them are true/accurate), Tesla led the way of electrification of transportation industry and showed us that EVs are the future of sustainable transportation. I am sure all the Tesla fanboys all have their own nuanced reasons to support Tesla and Elon Musk, but if I had $100k to spare, I'd support this noble goal (aforementioned, sort of a success at this point) and bet big on Tesla and Elon. Perhaps that's Tesla's strength - the vision and a goodwill. Everything else is secondary.

freyir 8y ago
> Everything else is secondary Including solvency? Noble goals don't keep debt collectors at bay.
atonse 8y ago
For the record, I am with you on this. For all these reasons, I hope Tesla pulls through (and also practically, that if I'm going to buy one of their cars next spring, I'd like for them to be alive for the life of that car). But sadly that doesn't change the reality of their financial situation. I hope investors are able to see the potential and give them more runway to get through this very difficult time. Elon's weird performance at the investor call didn't help.
- devy 8y ago
  I concur
resolaibohp 8y ago
If you really believe in Tesla to bet big on them you do not need 100k. You can buy 4 $275.00 call contracts for approx 26k that expire in 2020. This would be equivalent to ~$110k worth of tesla stock. And if you are really a believer you can just pick up a bunch of way out of the money contracts making the initial cash requirements even lower. But this is exactly why TSLA is worth so much right now as so many people think the same way as you. They all want to bet big on Tesla and Elon. It is the most interesting stock to watch as it hemorrhages money and just keeps going up and up.
- devy 8y ago
  I don't own any stocks/secruities directly other than 401k, can you explain a little more on the call contracts and which broker do you use? PS: the $100k reference I had there was meant for the purchase of a mid-range configuration Model S, not TSLA stock.
  - mathinpens 8y ago
    I think he is teasing you-before researching this I didn't think a reputable broker would sell a retail investor 26k of options. But apparently they do...who knows why. If I were you I would definitely not actually buy anything he mentions. He is making fun of your non-quantitative beliefs by urging you to lose money since like...these options contract price risk into them and discount future returns. Moreover you are ignoring the substance of the comment-which is that tesla is overvalued (because of the actions of retail investors buying the equity itself because they think elon is the lovechild of jesus and steve jobs) but the options market is probably a better discriminator of the future value of tesla since its more institutional. Looking at this comment I was pretty sure he was a financial person and he is (found a comment for his fintech company). In effect he is making fun of you for thinking with your gut instead of trying to make a more quantitative evaluation.
    - resolaibohp 8y ago
      To be clear I was not trying to make fun of the OP. I frequently hear people say that they would invest if they had some certain amount of money. I always like to point out that there are plenty of ways to invest without huge amounts of capital, however with much more risk. It is kind of a temperature gauge to see how serious they are about their words.
      - devy 8y ago
        Let me reiterate as well, the $100k price tag is for purchasing a mid spec Tesla Model S or a base model Model X with some options or 2 Model 3s(if they could deliver in time before going under), not investing on stocks/securities
xkjkls 8y ago
And I think a lot of us would be investors if their market cap were ~8 billion rather than ~50 billion. For a number of people who care about the electrification of vehicles, watching Elon angrily bite a short sellers who are skeptical really depresses us. Most of Tesla's wounds are self inflicted. They made an egregious decision to purchase Solar City and subsume all of it's debt, despite neither company being cash flow positive. They seem to lack concentration in what is the most important part of their business: creating a production line for electric vehicles; throwing up a smoke screen of distractions for other things that might work in the future (self driving cars, trucks). They also haven't given any realistic plans and have repeatedly exaggerated what they can accomplish. Sure, the car business is brutal to enter into, which is why there hasn't been a new car company decades, but there is also shooting yourself in the foot.
- shashanoid 8y ago
  He is asking you to buy Options. Call option means you're bullish on $TSLA - A call option is an agreement that gives an investor the right, but not the obligation, to buy a stock. Unlike stocks, options have an expiry date 7 somewhat lose their value with time ( time decay ). A $275 call option/contract for instance which expires in 2020 means if $TSLA stock is trading above $275 in 2020, you'll make ton of money. It gives you the right to buy $TSLA at $275 in 2020 but you can sell your contract (1 contract represents 100 shares ) before the expiration date. If you don't do anything, the option/contract will expire wothless which means you'll lose the price you initially paid to buy that contract or you'll lose if the stock is trading below $275 or whichever strike price you bought it for. For simple call option, losses are constrained (the premium you paid to buy the contract ) but profits are unlimited. Options work exactly how insurance works, you can do the opposite as well and ofcourse there are several strategies on options as well. Beaware, this is dangerous.
  - prklmn 8y ago
    The cost of the option you point to isn’t negligible. It’s trading at $69 as of today, meaning your break even point is $344, not $275.

by devy 8y ago

freyir 8y ago

> Everything else is secondary Including solvency? Noble goals don't keep debt collectors at bay.

atonse 8y ago

For the record, I am with you on this. For all these reasons, I hope Tesla pulls through (and also practically, that if I'm going to buy one of their cars next spring, I'd like for them to be alive for the life of that car). But sadly that doesn't change the reality of their financial situation. I hope investors are able to see the potential and give them more runway to get through this very difficult time. Elon's weird performance at the investor call didn't help.

devy 8y ago
I concur

resolaibohp 8y ago

If you really believe in Tesla to bet big on them you do not need 100k. You can buy 4 $275.00 call contracts for approx 26k that expire in 2020. This would be equivalent to ~$110k worth of tesla stock. And if you are really a believer you can just pick up a bunch of way out of the money contracts making the initial cash requirements even lower. But this is exactly why TSLA is worth so much right now as so many people think the same way as you. They all want to bet big on Tesla and Elon. It is the most interesting stock to watch as it hemorrhages money and just keeps going up and up.

devy 8y ago
I don't own any stocks/secruities directly other than 401k, can you explain a little more on the call contracts and which broker do you use? PS: the $100k reference I had there was meant for the purchase of a mid-range configuration Model S, not TSLA stock.
- mathinpens 8y ago
  I think he is teasing you-before researching this I didn't think a reputable broker would sell a retail investor 26k of options. But apparently they do...who knows why. If I were you I would definitely not actually buy anything he mentions. He is making fun of your non-quantitative beliefs by urging you to lose money since like...these options contract price risk into them and discount future returns. Moreover you are ignoring the substance of the comment-which is that tesla is overvalued (because of the actions of retail investors buying the equity itself because they think elon is the lovechild of jesus and steve jobs) but the options market is probably a better discriminator of the future value of tesla since its more institutional. Looking at this comment I was pretty sure he was a financial person and he is (found a comment for his fintech company). In effect he is making fun of you for thinking with your gut instead of trying to make a more quantitative evaluation.
  - resolaibohp 8y ago
    To be clear I was not trying to make fun of the OP. I frequently hear people say that they would invest if they had some certain amount of money. I always like to point out that there are plenty of ways to invest without huge amounts of capital, however with much more risk. It is kind of a temperature gauge to see how serious they are about their words.
    - devy 8y ago
      Let me reiterate as well, the $100k price tag is for purchasing a mid spec Tesla Model S or a base model Model X with some options or 2 Model 3s(if they could deliver in time before going under), not investing on stocks/securities

xkjkls 8y ago

And I think a lot of us would be investors if their market cap were ~8 billion rather than ~50 billion. For a number of people who care about the electrification of vehicles, watching Elon angrily bite a short sellers who are skeptical really depresses us. Most of Tesla's wounds are self inflicted. They made an egregious decision to purchase Solar City and subsume all of it's debt, despite neither company being cash flow positive. They seem to lack concentration in what is the most important part of their business: creating a production line for electric vehicles; throwing up a smoke screen of distractions for other things that might work in the future (self driving cars, trucks). They also haven't given any realistic plans and have repeatedly exaggerated what they can accomplish. Sure, the car business is brutal to enter into, which is why there hasn't been a new car company decades, but there is also shooting yourself in the foot.

shashanoid 8y ago
He is asking you to buy Options. Call option means you're bullish on $TSLA - A call option is an agreement that gives an investor the right, but not the obligation, to buy a stock. Unlike stocks, options have an expiry date 7 somewhat lose their value with time ( time decay ). A $275 call option/contract for instance which expires in 2020 means if $TSLA stock is trading above $275 in 2020, you'll make ton of money. It gives you the right to buy $TSLA at $275 in 2020 but you can sell your contract (1 contract represents 100 shares ) before the expiration date. If you don't do anything, the option/contract will expire wothless which means you'll lose the price you initially paid to buy that contract or you'll lose if the stock is trading below $275 or whichever strike price you bought it for. For simple call option, losses are constrained (the premium you paid to buy the contract ) but profits are unlimited. Options work exactly how insurance works, you can do the opposite as well and ofcourse there are several strategies on options as well. Beaware, this is dangerous.
- prklmn 8y ago
  The cost of the option you point to isn’t negligible. It’s trading at $69 as of today, meaning your break even point is $344, not $275.