6 ms·

I know a few earlyish employees at Facebook, and they are easily the happiest people I've met at any company. In some respects this can be credited to joining t

by rm999 8y ago

I know a few earlyish employees at Facebook, and they are easily the happiest people I've met at any company. In some respects this can be credited to joining the right company at the right time: they got in early at a company that makes insane amounts of money and has a huge influence on the world. But this seems to be the icing on the cake to them. Everyone I know at Facebook who got in before 2010 credits Mark Zuckerberg ("Zuck", ugh). They call him a friend and say he never wavers in his passion or mission. They seriously look up to the guy and won't work anywhere else, even though they have built up generational wealth. Honestly I don't care much for Facebook's methods and I think they are a net negative on the world, but I still really look up to Mark Zuckerberg as a leader.

908087 8y ago
Did you watch his recent testimony? If so, I'm not sure how you could possibly consider him someone worth looking up to as a leader. If you take everything he said and every question he dodged during his testimony at face value, it would indicate that he knows next to nothing about his own company. If you don't take it at face value, option two is that he's a liar. Those aren't the kind of qualities I consider worth looking up to.
- protonimitate 8y ago
  It's really easy to blame everything wrong with Facebook on Zuck. I can't fault him for doing his best to protect the company he built. I don't endorse or commend the shady business practices that happen over there, but I also can't fault him 100%. If you were put on the stand for a company you built, would you throw it under the bus for your principles? I don't know if I can say I would - especially in a high pressure situation like that. Let alone the amount of whispering in his ear from everyone his "team".
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    I think part of the issue is that his company, the one he's supposed to be leading and is fully responsible for, got to a point where he would be pressured to throw it under the bus for his principles. If he was a good leader, it shouldn't have gotten that far (unless, of course, what happened with Facebook was actually in line with his principles).
- cm2012 8y ago
  He answered the questions the only way you can when lying to congress is illegal - only answer things you know 100% for sure are true, don't volunteer any more information than asked. Not to mention, the people asking the questions weren't seeking the truth for the most part, they were seeking soundbites and "gotchas" for political gain.
  - 908087 8y ago
    If you have to dodge questions and lie to avoid making your company look bad, it's probably a sign that you're doing something you shouldn't be doing. This looks even worse coming from someone who runs a company that seeks to destroy the concept of privacy for the entire population (or, at least, the portion of the population that can't afford to buy the houses around their own and build 6 foot walls around 750 acre Hawaiian retreats for themselves like Zuckerberg has). The hypocrisy is incredible.
    - Darmani 8y ago
      It's quite easy to make anyone look bad by questioning. "Sir, do you know how fast you were driving. Were you aware that the speed limit is 55 mph? Do you know that hundreds of children die every year from drivers like yourself who value their own time over the lives of others?"
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
aaron-lebo 8y ago
Just interested, what's impressive about Zuck as a leader? Money will make people do crazy things. I think he's shown time and time again in his handling of situations that he's been pretty ineffective and his primary strategy is to say "we're sorry we have to do better". It's lots of excuses, that's not good leadership material in my book. There's also crazy stories like the time he gave a speech proclaiming "Carthago delenda est", casting Facebook as Rome and Google as Carthage. Then everyone went into lockdown over the weekend so they could dig through Google+ and copy whatever they could. According to the same book (Chaos Monkeys), Zuck's inner circle is basically a bunch of sycophants (aka Friend of Zuck). It also repeatedly refers to Facebook as a cult. Why do you think they had major failures like the most recent one? Sycophancy is not a working strategy. Surely he's made some great choices (Instagram acquisition), but how can you begin to separate his actual ability with the power/wealth he can bestow on anyone, biasing their view of him? The guy could fail 1,000 times over at this point and still be a billionaire. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/facebook-zuckerberg-apologies/?utm_term=.e09f48b4f2dd https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/facebo... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/16/facebook-moderators-identity-exposed-terrorist-groups https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/16/facebook-... The stuff that happens there is kind of comical. Would effective leaders really run an org like that?
- obelix_ 8y ago
  Instilling sycophancy is a pretty good strategy if you believe everyone else is a "dumb fuck".
  - dang 8y ago
    Maybe so, but could you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? We're hoping for better than that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dv_dt 8y ago
  > his primary strategy is to say "we're sorry we have to do better". It's lots of excuses, that's not good leadership material in my book. Actually, to me, that is incredibly powerful. I can't really evaluate Zuckerberg's effectiveness, but you can't fix problems if you can't admit fault, and many in leadership positions never admit fault.
thirduncle 8y ago
They call him a friend and say he never wavers in his passion or mission. But do they... agree with that "mission" -- or more specifically, what has become of it in 2018? That's the question you should be asking them.
some_account 8y ago
Oh come on. Have you worked at a large company? It's just politics. You support the people you work for until you switch jobs. Honesty is not common in corporations. Zuck is a dousche and so are his friends.
himom 8y ago
I remember one pseudohappy cult leader named David Weekly. Dude adds little value bc he doesn’t do actual work (dilettante in PHP whom skated through ivy league CS), just delegates everything by abdication, absence and mission statements like “empowerment.” TBH I’m glad Facebook keeps its cult of happy-clappy technoposers from infecting anything that matters.
ameister14 8y ago
A lot of people don't think much of him, and I completely disagree with his ultimate stated vision, but it's one hell of an accomplishment to take a company from $0-531 Billion in your 20's and early 30's, do it while retaining talent and growing and have people as committed now as they were 10 years ago. Doing that requires a very special person.
- typomatic 8y ago
  I agree that the things you said happened, but I believe that the success of the company is incidental to who ran it. There are millions and millions of factors involved in Facebook's success and to drop all the accolades at the feet of the CEO seems insane.
  - rm999 8y ago
    > I believe that the success of the company is incidental to who ran it This is usually not true for successful companies, but it's especially not true in facebook's case. Mark Zuckerberg has kept incredibly strong control of facebook, holding more than 50% of voting control even as it's grown to a half trillion dollar company - so he definitely deserves credit for what his company has become. Also, he has made some strong, unintuitive decisions along the way (no advertising in the first several years, real name policy, dropping out of college, moving to silicon valley, hiring experienced tech executives, buying a dead-simple photo filter app for 1 billion dollars) that can directly be attributed to facebook's success today. It's hard to remember today, but in the first ~5 years of Facebook it was very far from obvious that facebook would dominate the social space.
    - enitihas 8y ago
      I think his biggest decision might have been to go mobile first. I used to have a Nokia S40 series phone and Facebook worked really well on that both from the default web browser and from Opera Mini. Add that to the Instagram and WhatsApp acquisitions and he seems to be making really good business decisions. I do disagree with the overall fb direction today but I don't doubt he is a very capable business man.
cryoshon 8y ago
>I don't care much for Facebook's methods and I think they are a net negative on the world >I still really look up to Mark Zuckerberg as a leader. these statements are incompatible. who do you think dictates the methods? who do you think decides the ends for which those methods are directed? who do you think is the one who baldly avoided answering up and down over and over in front of a congressional panel? hint: it's zuck.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- save_ferris 8y ago
  Yeah, I completely agree here. How did we get to the point where we so easily separated leaders actions from their public image? It's the logical equivalent of saying "I condemn what the Nazis did, but I respect Hitler's oratory ability to inspire a country", as if his abilities as a leader in no way influenced the Holocaust. It's crazy to me how people logically isolate a leader's words and actions from the consequences of the institutions they lead in this case.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
aphextron 8y ago
>They call him a friend and say he never wavers in his passion or mission. They seriously look up to the guy and won't work anywhere else, even though they have built up generational wealth. Of course they like the guy. He essentially wrote them a free winning lottery ticket. I'd like him too. Try asking literally anyone else on earth how they feel about "Zuck", though.
- dchuk 8y ago
  What's interesting though, is that these people actually know him. Anyone else on earth most likely doesn't know him, but has formed a negative opinion of him via his own actions and those of his company.
  - staticautomatic 8y ago
    The same could be said for any cult leader.
    - wolco 8y ago
      Rarely are you friends with your cult leader. Father figure, representive of some alien power or direct connection to God rarely makes a good platform for a friendship.
      - staticautomatic 8y ago
        If you research cults I think you'll find that's not true. Cult leaders often become friends with their earliest and closest acolytes.
sadamznintern 8y ago
>I know a few earlyish employees at Facebook, and they are easily the happiest people I've met at any company. Does anybody have any suggestions about how to become like this?
- silverlake 8y ago
  become fabulously wealthy.
  - sadamznintern 8y ago
    Fuck

by rm999 8y ago

908087 8y ago

Did you watch his recent testimony? If so, I'm not sure how you could possibly consider him someone worth looking up to as a leader. If you take everything he said and every question he dodged during his testimony at face value, it would indicate that he knows next to nothing about his own company. If you don't take it at face value, option two is that he's a liar. Those aren't the kind of qualities I consider worth looking up to.

protonimitate 8y ago
It's really easy to blame everything wrong with Facebook on Zuck. I can't fault him for doing his best to protect the company he built. I don't endorse or commend the shady business practices that happen over there, but I also can't fault him 100%. If you were put on the stand for a company you built, would you throw it under the bus for your principles? I don't know if I can say I would - especially in a high pressure situation like that. Let alone the amount of whispering in his ear from everyone his "team".
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  I think part of the issue is that his company, the one he's supposed to be leading and is fully responsible for, got to a point where he would be pressured to throw it under the bus for his principles. If he was a good leader, it shouldn't have gotten that far (unless, of course, what happened with Facebook was actually in line with his principles).
cm2012 8y ago
He answered the questions the only way you can when lying to congress is illegal - only answer things you know 100% for sure are true, don't volunteer any more information than asked. Not to mention, the people asking the questions weren't seeking the truth for the most part, they were seeking soundbites and "gotchas" for political gain.
- 908087 8y ago
  If you have to dodge questions and lie to avoid making your company look bad, it's probably a sign that you're doing something you shouldn't be doing. This looks even worse coming from someone who runs a company that seeks to destroy the concept of privacy for the entire population (or, at least, the portion of the population that can't afford to buy the houses around their own and build 6 foot walls around 750 acre Hawaiian retreats for themselves like Zuckerberg has). The hypocrisy is incredible.
  - Darmani 8y ago
    It's quite easy to make anyone look bad by questioning. "Sir, do you know how fast you were driving. Were you aware that the speed limit is 55 mph? Do you know that hundreds of children die every year from drivers like yourself who value their own time over the lives of others?"

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

aaron-lebo 8y ago

Just interested, what's impressive about Zuck as a leader? Money will make people do crazy things. I think he's shown time and time again in his handling of situations that he's been pretty ineffective and his primary strategy is to say "we're sorry we have to do better". It's lots of excuses, that's not good leadership material in my book. There's also crazy stories like the time he gave a speech proclaiming "Carthago delenda est", casting Facebook as Rome and Google as Carthage. Then everyone went into lockdown over the weekend so they could dig through Google+ and copy whatever they could. According to the same book (Chaos Monkeys), Zuck's inner circle is basically a bunch of sycophants (aka Friend of Zuck). It also repeatedly refers to Facebook as a cult. Why do you think they had major failures like the most recent one? Sycophancy is not a working strategy. Surely he's made some great choices (Instagram acquisition), but how can you begin to separate his actual ability with the power/wealth he can bestow on anyone, biasing their view of him? The guy could fail 1,000 times over at this point and still be a billionaire. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/facebook-zuckerberg-apologies/?utm_term=.e09f48b4f2dd https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/facebo... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/16/facebook-moderators-identity-exposed-terrorist-groups https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/16/facebook-... The stuff that happens there is kind of comical. Would effective leaders really run an org like that?

obelix_ 8y ago
Instilling sycophancy is a pretty good strategy if you believe everyone else is a "dumb fuck".
- dang 8y ago
  Maybe so, but could you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? We're hoping for better than that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dv_dt 8y ago
> his primary strategy is to say "we're sorry we have to do better". It's lots of excuses, that's not good leadership material in my book. Actually, to me, that is incredibly powerful. I can't really evaluate Zuckerberg's effectiveness, but you can't fix problems if you can't admit fault, and many in leadership positions never admit fault.

thirduncle 8y ago

They call him a friend and say he never wavers in his passion or mission. But do they... agree with that "mission" -- or more specifically, what has become of it in 2018? That's the question you should be asking them.

some_account 8y ago

Oh come on. Have you worked at a large company? It's just politics. You support the people you work for until you switch jobs. Honesty is not common in corporations. Zuck is a dousche and so are his friends.

himom 8y ago

I remember one pseudohappy cult leader named David Weekly. Dude adds little value bc he doesn’t do actual work (dilettante in PHP whom skated through ivy league CS), just delegates everything by abdication, absence and mission statements like “empowerment.” TBH I’m glad Facebook keeps its cult of happy-clappy technoposers from infecting anything that matters.

ameister14 8y ago

A lot of people don't think much of him, and I completely disagree with his ultimate stated vision, but it's one hell of an accomplishment to take a company from $0-531 Billion in your 20's and early 30's, do it while retaining talent and growing and have people as committed now as they were 10 years ago. Doing that requires a very special person.

typomatic 8y ago
I agree that the things you said happened, but I believe that the success of the company is incidental to who ran it. There are millions and millions of factors involved in Facebook's success and to drop all the accolades at the feet of the CEO seems insane.
- rm999 8y ago
  > I believe that the success of the company is incidental to who ran it This is usually not true for successful companies, but it's especially not true in facebook's case. Mark Zuckerberg has kept incredibly strong control of facebook, holding more than 50% of voting control even as it's grown to a half trillion dollar company - so he definitely deserves credit for what his company has become. Also, he has made some strong, unintuitive decisions along the way (no advertising in the first several years, real name policy, dropping out of college, moving to silicon valley, hiring experienced tech executives, buying a dead-simple photo filter app for 1 billion dollars) that can directly be attributed to facebook's success today. It's hard to remember today, but in the first ~5 years of Facebook it was very far from obvious that facebook would dominate the social space.
  - enitihas 8y ago
    I think his biggest decision might have been to go mobile first. I used to have a Nokia S40 series phone and Facebook worked really well on that both from the default web browser and from Opera Mini. Add that to the Instagram and WhatsApp acquisitions and he seems to be making really good business decisions. I do disagree with the overall fb direction today but I don't doubt he is a very capable business man.

cryoshon 8y ago

>I don't care much for Facebook's methods and I think they are a net negative on the world >I still really look up to Mark Zuckerberg as a leader. these statements are incompatible. who do you think dictates the methods? who do you think decides the ends for which those methods are directed? who do you think is the one who baldly avoided answering up and down over and over in front of a congressional panel? hint: it's zuck.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
save_ferris 8y ago
Yeah, I completely agree here. How did we get to the point where we so easily separated leaders actions from their public image? It's the logical equivalent of saying "I condemn what the Nazis did, but I respect Hitler's oratory ability to inspire a country", as if his abilities as a leader in no way influenced the Holocaust. It's crazy to me how people logically isolate a leader's words and actions from the consequences of the institutions they lead in this case.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

aphextron 8y ago

>They call him a friend and say he never wavers in his passion or mission. They seriously look up to the guy and won't work anywhere else, even though they have built up generational wealth. Of course they like the guy. He essentially wrote them a free winning lottery ticket. I'd like him too. Try asking literally anyone else on earth how they feel about "Zuck", though.

dchuk 8y ago
What's interesting though, is that these people actually know him. Anyone else on earth most likely doesn't know him, but has formed a negative opinion of him via his own actions and those of his company.
- staticautomatic 8y ago
  The same could be said for any cult leader.
  - wolco 8y ago
    Rarely are you friends with your cult leader. Father figure, representive of some alien power or direct connection to God rarely makes a good platform for a friendship.
    - staticautomatic 8y ago
      If you research cults I think you'll find that's not true. Cult leaders often become friends with their earliest and closest acolytes.

sadamznintern 8y ago

>I know a few earlyish employees at Facebook, and they are easily the happiest people I've met at any company. Does anybody have any suggestions about how to become like this?

silverlake 8y ago
become fabulously wealthy.
- sadamznintern 8y ago
  Fuck