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Even if I knew any of the answers, why should I explain anything to anyone? I'm not going to apologise for having been born looking like people I admire. Why w

Even if I knew any of the answers, why should I explain anything to anyone? I'm not going to apologise for having been born looking like people I admire. Why would I want to convince someone that they can do something? What if they can't? Did you try to convince your plumber that he might be good at carpentry last time you saw him? At the end of the day, I don't care whether Jobs, Gates, Woz, and Knuth have penises or not. For some reason you do and I think you should be the one to explain yourself.

annabellish 8y ago
I'm not sure if your comment is intentionally obtuse. Nobody is asking you to apologise for being born the majority, and if that's what you took from the parent comment then that's very silly. Equating gender and profession, also, is very silly.
- cup-of-tea 8y ago
  The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". What else am I supposed to read? I never equated gender and profession so that comment looks completely out of place.
  - tyleraldrich 8y ago
    > The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". The comment isn't about you at all. The OP said we need more role models like Grace Hopper and less like Jobs, Woz, etc. Reading this as "White men should stop aspiring to become future role models" is silly, it's about a desire to increase the diversity of tech role models. It really just sounds like you're playing the victim here, for no real reason?
    - cup-of-tea 8y ago
      Come on. If the post wasn't about that then why does it specifically call out four male role models? It could have just left it at Grace Hopper, but no. The post contains more negative than positive by far.
      - tyleraldrich 8y ago
        Have you heard of "examples." They are things you provide in order to make your point more clear. Seriously.
      - annabellish 8y ago
        The point is that when _anyone_ thinks about role models in computer science and programming, all of the options fit into a pretty small niche. It _is_ relevant to have those examples, because there's a world of difference between nobody having any role models at all, and every role model being from one group. Think about how much the existence of these role models obviously matters to you, and realise that nobody wants to take that away from _you_, they simply want to give it to other people as well. When I look at the field of programming, I don't see people like me. Things are getting better, but we still live in a world where if you aren't a white man then you have no examples to point to and say "look, I can do this!" And you might say, "well, I never needed that", and that might be true - I obviously never needed it either - but appreciate that whether you needed it or not, you _had_ it, and a lot of other people do need it, whether white man or not. We all need role models to aspire to. Stop acting like other people getting the things you've always had is taking anything away from you.
        doorbumper 8y ago
        Those four role models don't look like me, and I think they're all awful examples of people someone should look up to. But you need to acknowledge both sides. Stop being so stubborn and look at it objectively. We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack. It's tricky business either way. But perhaps it would be better to say that you wish four great role models that look like you also held such prominent mindshare.

annabellish 8y ago

I'm not sure if your comment is intentionally obtuse. Nobody is asking you to apologise for being born the majority, and if that's what you took from the parent comment then that's very silly. Equating gender and profession, also, is very silly.

cup-of-tea 8y ago
The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". What else am I supposed to read? I never equated gender and profession so that comment looks completely out of place.
- tyleraldrich 8y ago
  > The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". The comment isn't about you at all. The OP said we need more role models like Grace Hopper and less like Jobs, Woz, etc. Reading this as "White men should stop aspiring to become future role models" is silly, it's about a desire to increase the diversity of tech role models. It really just sounds like you're playing the victim here, for no real reason?
  - cup-of-tea 8y ago
    Come on. If the post wasn't about that then why does it specifically call out four male role models? It could have just left it at Grace Hopper, but no. The post contains more negative than positive by far.
    - tyleraldrich 8y ago
      Have you heard of "examples." They are things you provide in order to make your point more clear. Seriously.
    - annabellish 8y ago
      The point is that when _anyone_ thinks about role models in computer science and programming, all of the options fit into a pretty small niche. It _is_ relevant to have those examples, because there's a world of difference between nobody having any role models at all, and every role model being from one group. Think about how much the existence of these role models obviously matters to you, and realise that nobody wants to take that away from _you_, they simply want to give it to other people as well. When I look at the field of programming, I don't see people like me. Things are getting better, but we still live in a world where if you aren't a white man then you have no examples to point to and say "look, I can do this!" And you might say, "well, I never needed that", and that might be true - I obviously never needed it either - but appreciate that whether you needed it or not, you _had_ it, and a lot of other people do need it, whether white man or not. We all need role models to aspire to. Stop acting like other people getting the things you've always had is taking anything away from you.
      - doorbumper 8y ago
        Those four role models don't look like me, and I think they're all awful examples of people someone should look up to. But you need to acknowledge both sides. Stop being so stubborn and look at it objectively. We do need more diversity in role models, however by saying you want less of the current role models you are initiating a direct attack. It's tricky business either way. But perhaps it would be better to say that you wish four great role models that look like you also held such prominent mindshare.