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Right. Sexist. Okay. I'll bite. Since I'm clearly in the wrong here, I'll let you explain to minorities, women, and non-gendered people why there aren't any pe

Right. Sexist. Okay. I'll bite. Since I'm clearly in the wrong here, I'll let you explain to minorities, women, and non-gendered people why there aren't any people in the engineering limelight that look like them. While you're at it, please figure out how to break into their subconscious to make them believe that they're capable while the rest of the world shows no clues of that. I'll be waiting.

surfmike 8y ago
Totally agree we need role models from all groups and should make sure especially that the ones who are minorities get all the attention they deserve. That doesn't mean that our existing ones should be undesirable because of their gender and race.
- klodolph 8y ago
  > That doesn't mean that our existing ones should be undesirable because of their gender and race. Do you think that's an argument someone is making here?
  - surfmike 8y ago
    Yes, I think parent saying "rather than" means that they prefer one over another. A both/and additive approach to diversity is much more just and healthy than an either/or zero-sum one. Indeed the latter just becomes discrimination in another form.
nateconq 8y ago
I don't get the current obsession with sexism in IT. Are you not at all concerned about other fields such as nursing, human resources, and teaching?
cup-of-tea 8y ago
Even if I knew any of the answers, why should I explain anything to anyone? I'm not going to apologise for having been born looking like people I admire. Why would I want to convince someone that they can do something? What if they can't? Did you try to convince your plumber that he might be good at carpentry last time you saw him? At the end of the day, I don't care whether Jobs, Gates, Woz, and Knuth have penises or not. For some reason you do and I think you should be the one to explain yourself.
- annabellish 8y ago
  I'm not sure if your comment is intentionally obtuse. Nobody is asking you to apologise for being born the majority, and if that's what you took from the parent comment then that's very silly. Equating gender and profession, also, is very silly.
  - cup-of-tea 8y ago
    The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". What else am I supposed to read? I never equated gender and profession so that comment looks completely out of place.
    - tyleraldrich 8y ago
      > The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". The comment isn't about you at all. The OP said we need more role models like Grace Hopper and less like Jobs, Woz, etc. Reading this as "White men should stop aspiring to become future role models" is silly, it's about a desire to increase the diversity of tech role models. It really just sounds like you're playing the victim here, for no real reason?
      - cup-of-tea 8y ago
        Come on. If the post wasn't about that then why does it specifically call out four male role models? It could have just left it at Grace Hopper, but no. The post contains more negative than positive by far.
        tyleraldrich 8y ago
        Have you heard of "examples." They are things you provide in order to make your point more clear. Seriously.
        8y ago

surfmike 8y ago

Totally agree we need role models from all groups and should make sure especially that the ones who are minorities get all the attention they deserve. That doesn't mean that our existing ones should be undesirable because of their gender and race.

klodolph 8y ago
> That doesn't mean that our existing ones should be undesirable because of their gender and race. Do you think that's an argument someone is making here?
- surfmike 8y ago
  Yes, I think parent saying "rather than" means that they prefer one over another. A both/and additive approach to diversity is much more just and healthy than an either/or zero-sum one. Indeed the latter just becomes discrimination in another form.

nateconq 8y ago

I don't get the current obsession with sexism in IT. Are you not at all concerned about other fields such as nursing, human resources, and teaching?

cup-of-tea 8y ago

Even if I knew any of the answers, why should I explain anything to anyone? I'm not going to apologise for having been born looking like people I admire. Why would I want to convince someone that they can do something? What if they can't? Did you try to convince your plumber that he might be good at carpentry last time you saw him? At the end of the day, I don't care whether Jobs, Gates, Woz, and Knuth have penises or not. For some reason you do and I think you should be the one to explain yourself.

annabellish 8y ago
I'm not sure if your comment is intentionally obtuse. Nobody is asking you to apologise for being born the majority, and if that's what you took from the parent comment then that's very silly. Equating gender and profession, also, is very silly.
- cup-of-tea 8y ago
  The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". What else am I supposed to read? I never equated gender and profession so that comment looks completely out of place.
  - tyleraldrich 8y ago
    > The comment is essentially saying that if I do great things and become a role model then I'm not welcome because we already have plenty that "look like me". The comment isn't about you at all. The OP said we need more role models like Grace Hopper and less like Jobs, Woz, etc. Reading this as "White men should stop aspiring to become future role models" is silly, it's about a desire to increase the diversity of tech role models. It really just sounds like you're playing the victim here, for no real reason?
    - cup-of-tea 8y ago
      Come on. If the post wasn't about that then why does it specifically call out four male role models? It could have just left it at Grace Hopper, but no. The post contains more negative than positive by far.
      - tyleraldrich 8y ago
        Have you heard of "examples." They are things you provide in order to make your point more clear. Seriously.
      - 8y ago