6 ms·

Dinosaur tail found preserved in amber (2016)

110 points by triplesec 8y ago

Larrikin 8y ago
Is this the first discovery of color for dinosaurs?
- dvtv75 8y ago
  If you do a search, you'll get a number of links (the farthest back I found was 2010) on feather color. I found one popsci article that describes how it was determined: https://www.popsci.com/discover-color-dinosaur https://www.popsci.com/discover-color-dinosaur
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
I wonder if we'll eventually find that all, or most, dinosaurs were feathered. I mean, it is a bit of a coincidence, that we find a dinosaur tail in amber and it just so happens to be from a feather dinosaur- it's a bit of a coincidence. Have other dinosaur body parts been found so well preserved?
- glaberficken 8y ago
  feathers are more likely to get stuck in resin?
  - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
    I think the defining characteristic of a dinosaur that would allow it to be trapped in resin is small size. I couldn't imagine a T-Rex getting trapped in resin, say :)
- gadders 8y ago
  I think current think is that most therapods had at least some feathers [1]. Not sure about the dinosaurs that walked on all fours though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theropoda#Skin,_scales_and_feathers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theropoda#Skin,_scales_and_fea...
- autokad 8y ago
  the nodosaur found in Alberta doesnt seem to have had feathers. https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-dinosaur-fossil-has-been-so-well-preserved-it-looks-like-a-statue https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-dinosaur-fossil-has-been-...
  - blacksmith_tb 8y ago
    Neither does a tortoise. It doesn't seem like growing armor is conducive to producing feathers on top of it.
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      And as you likely know, these are dinosaur contemporaries who are from that general lineage. So great example. "The earliest fossils are from the beginning of the age of dinosaurs, in the late Triassic."
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ggg9990 8y ago
Consequences be damned, if I could make Jurassic Park, I would.
- mystcb 8y ago
  "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should." :D
- anfilt 8y ago
  If we are able to get any DNA out amber that would be amazing. From what I understand DNA is not stable for that long. If we are able to get any DNA it would probably be inferred some microscopic structures or something left behind from the DNA. However, even then I doubt it would be complete. So why it would be amazing it would just be tiny fragments of DNA. I doubt we will even get a tiny fragment. So highly doubt we will ever get enough genetic information to be able resurrect a dinosaur. Even if we would could fill in the blanks with bird DNA. So even if you wanted to I don't think you could. However, a mammoth for instance might be possible to clone.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    DNA has a half-life. If you find 100gr of "intact" cells, it's not going to be a problem to extract the DNA.
  - 52-6F-62 8y ago
    Isn't that why they used frogs DNA? To finish incomplete sequences as a heuristic? Also: life uh... uh finds a way.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    If you imagine finding some big stash of amber with, say, 1 million different dinosaur fragments preserved, you could imagine using some statistical techniques combined with knowledge of extant related species to put something together.
gcthomas 8y ago
Assuming that birds are a group of therapod dinosaurs, as many scientists now describe them, it is true that all extant dinosaurs are feathered. But it is exciting to see these fossils discovered, so perhaps they should be described as extinct therapod feathers.
- mannykannot 8y ago
  > Assuming that birds are a group of therapod dinosaurs, as many scientists now describe them... And mammals are synapsids, apparently[1], though that's not so much of an attention-grabber. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid#Relationships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid#Relationships
fwdpropaganda 8y ago
> "We can be sure of the source because the vertebrae are not fused into a rod or pygostyle as in modern birds and their closest relatives," he explained. For non-experts (like me) I think it comes as a surprise to learn just how rudimentary these people's techniques are.
PedroBatista 8y ago
It's been a sad couple of years for people who grew up with Jurassic Park and now realize those scary beasts are just a bunch of mutant chickens.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Just wait until they realize that these were not warm blooded animals and thus the large ones, including T-Rex, would have moved slower than large African animals (probably a lot slower), the fastest of which are about half as fast as normal human running speeds. for the same reason, our stamina should also be vastly superior to dinosaurs. If we just simply keep walking after running away, dinosaurs will never catch up. Even the smaller ones would only be able to maintain their top speeds for very short durations. Double digit seconds at the very most, and one can be fairly sure not more than 20/30 kph. Humans, and in fact nearly every animal, should be able to easily outrun and outlast any dinosaur. Probably the same as crocodiles, where being a lot faster and having more stamina does little good once those jaws close, or if you can't tell where the animal is reliably (like underwater). So they should be a lot like crocodiles : a human can pester them (on land) and be nearly perfectly certain that (s)he's never going to get caught by the animal (which is practiced in North Australia to get the things out of your bedroom).
  - Retric 8y ago
    Central bearded dragon's are ~1lb reptiles and can do 25MPH which is faster than most people. So, at least predator dinosaurs where likely faster than most people. We might do fine over long distances, but overall we are fairly slow. As to being warm blooded, that's less meaningful for very large creatures. Body feathers are also a sign something is trying to conserve body heat which is a sign it's warm blooded.
    - candiodari 8y ago
      Trained humans can maintain a speed of ~20kph for hours (as in plural). Peak speed for a few seconds (which is what would be required to escape these animals if reaction time is not the problem) is ~50 kph for humans (but only for 10 meters or so). Apples to apples, humans are far superior to these speeds. The best animals for these measurements do crush these figures (by a factor of ~3), but I would expect that the best dinosaurs wouldn't. > Very large animals are effectively warm blooded by default due to volume to surface ratios cooling is a much larger problem than staying warm. True, but being "very large" does not really help with either top speed or explosive power. The fastest animals are small (though not tiny, a decent-not-huge dog in size but much lighter) brittle little things. They chase, rapidly inflict a mortal wound, and run away, waiting until it is abandoned to eat. Fast animals, from cheetahs to rabbits are much lighter than their appearance would suggest. The animals with greatest endurance are larger, but humans are, perhaps surprisingly, pretty good at endurance. Clearly we, at one point, hunted like dogs do : not by outsprinting an animal in an intense fast chase, but by wearing it down for hours, slowly closing in for the kill. Most animals should not be able to escape humans using that strategy. Human hunters would make an animal sprint for it's life 10 times, letting it "escape" 9 times.
sizzzzlerz 8y ago
This makes one wonder what else might be found in these markets where this was found. This could have been so easily lost to science if the right person hadn't come along at the right time. If not done already, I assume more scientist types will start trolling the markets there.
xxxdarrenxxx 8y ago
I wonder.. it is said the ice age made them go extinct and they are feathered like birds. You know what many species of birds do when winter comes? they fly to the south for the warmth. Could it be related? Quite a stretch I will admit, but it's interesting to think about. Evolution is wondrous, but is always characterized by adaptation. They likely didn't have feathers just because nature was bored. Could it be transit for the ice age, to migrate to a warmer region by flight? When everything is ice and snow, walking and swimming are highly inferior to flight.

110 points by triplesec 8y ago

Larrikin 8y ago

Is this the first discovery of color for dinosaurs?

dvtv75 8y ago
If you do a search, you'll get a number of links (the farthest back I found was 2010) on feather color. I found one popsci article that describes how it was determined: https://www.popsci.com/discover-color-dinosaur https://www.popsci.com/discover-color-dinosaur

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

I wonder if we'll eventually find that all, or most, dinosaurs were feathered. I mean, it is a bit of a coincidence, that we find a dinosaur tail in amber and it just so happens to be from a feather dinosaur- it's a bit of a coincidence. Have other dinosaur body parts been found so well preserved?

glaberficken 8y ago
feathers are more likely to get stuck in resin?
- YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
  I think the defining characteristic of a dinosaur that would allow it to be trapped in resin is small size. I couldn't imagine a T-Rex getting trapped in resin, say :)
gadders 8y ago
I think current think is that most therapods had at least some feathers [1]. Not sure about the dinosaurs that walked on all fours though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theropoda#Skin,_scales_and_feathers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theropoda#Skin,_scales_and_fea...
autokad 8y ago
the nodosaur found in Alberta doesnt seem to have had feathers. https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-dinosaur-fossil-has-been-so-well-preserved-it-looks-like-a-statue https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-dinosaur-fossil-has-been-...
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  Neither does a tortoise. It doesn't seem like growing armor is conducive to producing feathers on top of it.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    And as you likely know, these are dinosaur contemporaries who are from that general lineage. So great example. "The earliest fossils are from the beginning of the age of dinosaurs, in the late Triassic."
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

ggg9990 8y ago

Consequences be damned, if I could make Jurassic Park, I would.

mystcb 8y ago
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should." :D
anfilt 8y ago
If we are able to get any DNA out amber that would be amazing. From what I understand DNA is not stable for that long. If we are able to get any DNA it would probably be inferred some microscopic structures or something left behind from the DNA. However, even then I doubt it would be complete. So why it would be amazing it would just be tiny fragments of DNA. I doubt we will even get a tiny fragment. So highly doubt we will ever get enough genetic information to be able resurrect a dinosaur. Even if we would could fill in the blanks with bird DNA. So even if you wanted to I don't think you could. However, a mammoth for instance might be possible to clone.
- candiodari 8y ago
  DNA has a half-life. If you find 100gr of "intact" cells, it's not going to be a problem to extract the DNA.
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  Isn't that why they used frogs DNA? To finish incomplete sequences as a heuristic? Also: life uh... uh finds a way.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ggg9990 8y ago
  If you imagine finding some big stash of amber with, say, 1 million different dinosaur fragments preserved, you could imagine using some statistical techniques combined with knowledge of extant related species to put something together.

gcthomas 8y ago

Assuming that birds are a group of therapod dinosaurs, as many scientists now describe them, it is true that all extant dinosaurs are feathered. But it is exciting to see these fossils discovered, so perhaps they should be described as extinct therapod feathers.

mannykannot 8y ago
> Assuming that birds are a group of therapod dinosaurs, as many scientists now describe them... And mammals are synapsids, apparently[1], though that's not so much of an attention-grabber. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid#Relationships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid#Relationships

fwdpropaganda 8y ago

> "We can be sure of the source because the vertebrae are not fused into a rod or pygostyle as in modern birds and their closest relatives," he explained. For non-experts (like me) I think it comes as a surprise to learn just how rudimentary these people's techniques are.

PedroBatista 8y ago

It's been a sad couple of years for people who grew up with Jurassic Park and now realize those scary beasts are just a bunch of mutant chickens.

candiodari 8y ago
Just wait until they realize that these were not warm blooded animals and thus the large ones, including T-Rex, would have moved slower than large African animals (probably a lot slower), the fastest of which are about half as fast as normal human running speeds. for the same reason, our stamina should also be vastly superior to dinosaurs. If we just simply keep walking after running away, dinosaurs will never catch up. Even the smaller ones would only be able to maintain their top speeds for very short durations. Double digit seconds at the very most, and one can be fairly sure not more than 20/30 kph. Humans, and in fact nearly every animal, should be able to easily outrun and outlast any dinosaur. Probably the same as crocodiles, where being a lot faster and having more stamina does little good once those jaws close, or if you can't tell where the animal is reliably (like underwater). So they should be a lot like crocodiles : a human can pester them (on land) and be nearly perfectly certain that (s)he's never going to get caught by the animal (which is practiced in North Australia to get the things out of your bedroom).
- Retric 8y ago
  Central bearded dragon's are ~1lb reptiles and can do 25MPH which is faster than most people. So, at least predator dinosaurs where likely faster than most people. We might do fine over long distances, but overall we are fairly slow. As to being warm blooded, that's less meaningful for very large creatures. Body feathers are also a sign something is trying to conserve body heat which is a sign it's warm blooded.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    Trained humans can maintain a speed of ~20kph for hours (as in plural). Peak speed for a few seconds (which is what would be required to escape these animals if reaction time is not the problem) is ~50 kph for humans (but only for 10 meters or so). Apples to apples, humans are far superior to these speeds. The best animals for these measurements do crush these figures (by a factor of ~3), but I would expect that the best dinosaurs wouldn't. > Very large animals are effectively warm blooded by default due to volume to surface ratios cooling is a much larger problem than staying warm. True, but being "very large" does not really help with either top speed or explosive power. The fastest animals are small (though not tiny, a decent-not-huge dog in size but much lighter) brittle little things. They chase, rapidly inflict a mortal wound, and run away, waiting until it is abandoned to eat. Fast animals, from cheetahs to rabbits are much lighter than their appearance would suggest. The animals with greatest endurance are larger, but humans are, perhaps surprisingly, pretty good at endurance. Clearly we, at one point, hunted like dogs do : not by outsprinting an animal in an intense fast chase, but by wearing it down for hours, slowly closing in for the kill. Most animals should not be able to escape humans using that strategy. Human hunters would make an animal sprint for it's life 10 times, letting it "escape" 9 times.

sizzzzlerz 8y ago

This makes one wonder what else might be found in these markets where this was found. This could have been so easily lost to science if the right person hadn't come along at the right time. If not done already, I assume more scientist types will start trolling the markets there.

xxxdarrenxxx 8y ago

I wonder.. it is said the ice age made them go extinct and they are feathered like birds. You know what many species of birds do when winter comes? they fly to the south for the warmth. Could it be related? Quite a stretch I will admit, but it's interesting to think about. Evolution is wondrous, but is always characterized by adaptation. They likely didn't have feathers just because nature was bored. Could it be transit for the ice age, to migrate to a warmer region by flight? When everything is ice and snow, walking and swimming are highly inferior to flight.