4 ms·

Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation. Here's my actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model) yet? I'm pretty sure the answer i

by mmt 8y ago

Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation. Here's my actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model) yet? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". I'm not going so far as a condemnation, but I'd like to see reviews of that model before passing judgment. Also, is it common for "every other carmaker" to have that huge a difference in price within the same model, barring actual structural differences (coupe/sedan/wagon)? $56k is 160% of the $35k price.

greglindahl 8y ago
The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.) The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I would have had to wait longer than the 9 months I'd already waited in 2012-2013. The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.
- mmt 8y ago
  > will be released when they need to ship them Does this jibe with your "all other carmakers" comparison? I do know that different models routinely get released at different times (separated by months), but different option packages? > The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance. And? How does it drive?
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    I gave you enough clues to guess how it drives, but if you don't want to guess, then I guess you'll have to wait. "Late 2018" is what the configurator tells me.
    - mmt 8y ago
      > enough clues Disagree. Plus, I want a descriptive a review, like TFA, except for the car that's affordable. > you'll have to wait. Meanwhile, you'll have to live through the valid criticism that they haven't released a car at the promised price.
- dtparr 8y ago
  One nit, in addition to the +$9k long range 'option' the cheapest current 3 also requires the +$5k Premium Upgrade Package. So the cheapest current Model 3 is $49k (+ the 1k Destination + Doc Fee). I'm curious how many of those have been sold since that does not include the autopilot package, meaning it doesn't even have traffic aware cruise control. It seems likely that people preferring Teslas would also have a strong preference for the autopilot.
jccooper 8y ago
It's entirely common in that segment. The BMW 3 series, against which the Model 3 is precisely positioned, starts at $34,900, has a non-optioned model with a larger engine and all-wheel drive starting at $50,950, and can get optioned to $66,000. And that's not even getting into the M3 performance version, which starts at $66,500 and can get optioned up to $88,000.
- mmt 8y ago
  Granted, it's not your own comment you're defending, but that's a single carmaker, a far cry from the "all" that was claimed. Also, now I'm curious, other than sharing the numeral 3, is there evidence for the model 3 being "precisely positioned" against the BMW's 3 series? I haven't been following any of this that closely, so I only recall it being hyped as Tesla's foray into an affordable mass-market sedan, which seems incompatible with BMW's premium branding strategy in the US and with a $60k ASP for the Model 3.
  - jccooper 8y ago
    Well, I don't know what "hype" says, but it's fairly obvious by size and price that the Model 3 is in the small luxury sedan category, of which the BMW 3 and MB C-series are the big players. But if you need a citation here's an Elon tweet: "Sorta. Model 3 is like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4. Model S is like BMW 5 and 6 series, but much faster, more storage space + Autopilot" [https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/845282298291339267?lang=en https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/845282298291339267?lang=...] You could also check with the car press [https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-drive https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-drive] [https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3 https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3] or the Tesla press [https://www.teslarati.com/bmw-vs-tesla-large-luxury-car-market/ https://www.teslarati.com/bmw-vs-tesla-large-luxury-car-mark...]. The current prices of available Model 3s are an artifact of production decisions. They will sell $35k base models eventually. By comparison to the Model S it's affordable and mass market, and where it landed was always the plan. It was never going to be like a Toyota Corolla.
    - mmt 8y ago

by mmt 8y ago

greglindahl 8y ago

The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.) The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I would have had to wait longer than the 9 months I'd already waited in 2012-2013. The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

mmt 8y ago
> will be released when they need to ship them Does this jibe with your "all other carmakers" comparison? I do know that different models routinely get released at different times (separated by months), but different option packages? > The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance. And? How does it drive?
- greglindahl 8y ago
  I gave you enough clues to guess how it drives, but if you don't want to guess, then I guess you'll have to wait. "Late 2018" is what the configurator tells me.
  - mmt 8y ago
    > enough clues Disagree. Plus, I want a descriptive a review, like TFA, except for the car that's affordable. > you'll have to wait. Meanwhile, you'll have to live through the valid criticism that they haven't released a car at the promised price.
dtparr 8y ago
One nit, in addition to the +$9k long range 'option' the cheapest current 3 also requires the +$5k Premium Upgrade Package. So the cheapest current Model 3 is $49k (+ the 1k Destination + Doc Fee). I'm curious how many of those have been sold since that does not include the autopilot package, meaning it doesn't even have traffic aware cruise control. It seems likely that people preferring Teslas would also have a strong preference for the autopilot.

jccooper 8y ago

It's entirely common in that segment. The BMW 3 series, against which the Model 3 is precisely positioned, starts at $34,900, has a non-optioned model with a larger engine and all-wheel drive starting at $50,950, and can get optioned to $66,000. And that's not even getting into the M3 performance version, which starts at $66,500 and can get optioned up to $88,000.

mmt 8y ago
Granted, it's not your own comment you're defending, but that's a single carmaker, a far cry from the "all" that was claimed. Also, now I'm curious, other than sharing the numeral 3, is there evidence for the model 3 being "precisely positioned" against the BMW's 3 series? I haven't been following any of this that closely, so I only recall it being hyped as Tesla's foray into an affordable mass-market sedan, which seems incompatible with BMW's premium branding strategy in the US and with a $60k ASP for the Model 3.
- jccooper 8y ago
  Well, I don't know what "hype" says, but it's fairly obvious by size and price that the Model 3 is in the small luxury sedan category, of which the BMW 3 and MB C-series are the big players. But if you need a citation here's an Elon tweet: "Sorta. Model 3 is like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4. Model S is like BMW 5 and 6 series, but much faster, more storage space + Autopilot" [https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/845282298291339267?lang=en https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/845282298291339267?lang=...] You could also check with the car press [https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-drive https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-drive] [https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3 https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3] or the Tesla press [https://www.teslarati.com/bmw-vs-tesla-large-luxury-car-market/ https://www.teslarati.com/bmw-vs-tesla-large-luxury-car-mark...]. The current prices of available Model 3s are an artifact of production decisions. They will sell $35k base models eventually. By comparison to the Model S it's affordable and mass market, and where it landed was always the plan. It was never going to be like a Toyota Corolla.
  - mmt 8y ago