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> Body roll is minimal There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering. One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly

> Body roll is minimal There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering. One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.

greglindahl 8y ago
The 3 is so bottom-heavy that it could be that it naturally corners flat.
yathern 8y ago
I'm not sure I understand how having a flat body roll is worse than normal, in terms of passenger tiltiness. Ideally, the car would bank, rolling opposite. Then the force of the turn would push you into your seat, rather than out of it. But I'm probably misunderstanding something.
rwbt 8y ago
> More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. This honestly depends on the tires. A lot of performance tires lose grip very gradually. Don't know what tires the Model 3 comes with, but with a good set it shouldn't be an issue. > As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners. I daily drive an MX-5 and the body roll drives me nuts. If you ever drive a modded Miata or an S2000/BRZ or a Porsche Cayman it'll be very apparent how their lack of body roll gives superior driving dynamics while still being very compliant. Not saying Miata is a boat, but it's overly wallow-y for a car of that size.
dpark 8y ago
> One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. Body roll is going the wrong way to make it more comfortable. The roll is in the same direction that the passengers are being pulled, which makes the passenger impact worse as gravity adds to the pull as the car tilts. Contrast with a banked curve, which is essentially reverse roll, and is more comfortable because much of the force is directed "downward" into the seat.

greglindahl 8y ago

The 3 is so bottom-heavy that it could be that it naturally corners flat.

yathern 8y ago

I'm not sure I understand how having a flat body roll is worse than normal, in terms of passenger tiltiness. Ideally, the car would bank, rolling opposite. Then the force of the turn would push you into your seat, rather than out of it. But I'm probably misunderstanding something.

rwbt 8y ago

> More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. This honestly depends on the tires. A lot of performance tires lose grip very gradually. Don't know what tires the Model 3 comes with, but with a good set it shouldn't be an issue. > As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners. I daily drive an MX-5 and the body roll drives me nuts. If you ever drive a modded Miata or an S2000/BRZ or a Porsche Cayman it'll be very apparent how their lack of body roll gives superior driving dynamics while still being very compliant. Not saying Miata is a boat, but it's overly wallow-y for a car of that size.

dpark 8y ago

> One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. Body roll is going the wrong way to make it more comfortable. The roll is in the same direction that the passengers are being pulled, which makes the passenger impact worse as gravity adds to the pull as the car tilts. Contrast with a banked curve, which is essentially reverse roll, and is more comfortable because much of the force is directed "downward" into the seat.