4 ms·

> There is a LOT of room in the country for growth No there isn't. All the places with viable logistics and water supply are pretty much full up. Urban areas n

> There is a LOT of room in the country for growth No there isn't. All the places with viable logistics and water supply are pretty much full up. Urban areas need barge transport, good rail grades, aqueducts, and rivers to carry away waste. You can't plop a city down in the middle of nowhere. The energy economics mean it will never work. All the sites worth building on have been built on. A lot of the places supplied mostly by truck are of questionable viability in coming years. Probably the only area of the country that could long term sustain a much higher population density is the great lakes region.

cascom 8y ago
I’m sorry but the US is one of the least densely populated developed countries with abundant fresh water, energy and arable land. If Oklahoma had the population density of the Netherlands it would have an additional 72 million people living in it...and oh by the way it’s got huge oil and gas reserves and some pretty enormous inland ports...
- maoistinquisitr 8y ago
  Your comparison illustrates my point. Oklahoma is not crisscrossed with efficient water transport and reliable annual fresh water. Oklahoma is probably overpopulated as it is. The Netherlands is, too, in the long run. But for now it's economically sustainable.
  - maoistinquisitr 8y ago
    > US is one of the least densely populated developed countries None of the other developed countries have vast interior deserts. The east and west coasts and some parts of the Mississippi and Great Lakes watersheds are plenty overpopulated.
    - perl4ever 8y ago
      Other than Australia...
    - greedo 8y ago
      This is typical "flyover state" bull. The Midwest has tons of water, tons of space, easy travel, great amenities, and a business friendly environment. Colleges are affordable, housing is affordable, and crime is relatively low. But the in crowd has decided that the East and West coast are all that exists, and that everything else is a "vast interior desert."
  - cascom 8y ago
    The state has does have pretty significant water transport (look up the port of Muskogee and Catoosa), not to mention a great deal of rail and pipeline as well, no idea about the aquifers etc. I wouldn’t want to live there, but seems like a lot of bulk commodities, and products come in and out of Oklahoma and there is still plenty of room...
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    Water transport is comparatively cheap. Urban areas throughout American history have been able to reliably source enough water for their needs. It gets difficult in deserts, but the US was blessed with many, many rivers and abundant rainfall, it's a crucial reason why we rose to prominence in the first place. There are a few interesting studies in this area, California's agricultural section's tug-of-war with its residents for water is the biggest one that comes to mind, and the lesson you get is that industry uses up the lion's share of the water out of greed and sloth, but enough pressure will force them to curtail usage.
bluGill 8y ago
All the places with viable logistics have ALWAYS been full. Nobody sane overbuilds infrastructure by much: you can't afford it. Instead civilization is constantly in a cycle of upgrade as required. It has been this way for thousands of years.

cascom 8y ago

I’m sorry but the US is one of the least densely populated developed countries with abundant fresh water, energy and arable land. If Oklahoma had the population density of the Netherlands it would have an additional 72 million people living in it...and oh by the way it’s got huge oil and gas reserves and some pretty enormous inland ports...

maoistinquisitr 8y ago
Your comparison illustrates my point. Oklahoma is not crisscrossed with efficient water transport and reliable annual fresh water. Oklahoma is probably overpopulated as it is. The Netherlands is, too, in the long run. But for now it's economically sustainable.
- maoistinquisitr 8y ago
  > US is one of the least densely populated developed countries None of the other developed countries have vast interior deserts. The east and west coasts and some parts of the Mississippi and Great Lakes watersheds are plenty overpopulated.
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    Other than Australia...
  - greedo 8y ago
    This is typical "flyover state" bull. The Midwest has tons of water, tons of space, easy travel, great amenities, and a business friendly environment. Colleges are affordable, housing is affordable, and crime is relatively low. But the in crowd has decided that the East and West coast are all that exists, and that everything else is a "vast interior desert."
- cascom 8y ago
  The state has does have pretty significant water transport (look up the port of Muskogee and Catoosa), not to mention a great deal of rail and pipeline as well, no idea about the aquifers etc. I wouldn’t want to live there, but seems like a lot of bulk commodities, and products come in and out of Oklahoma and there is still plenty of room...
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  Water transport is comparatively cheap. Urban areas throughout American history have been able to reliably source enough water for their needs. It gets difficult in deserts, but the US was blessed with many, many rivers and abundant rainfall, it's a crucial reason why we rose to prominence in the first place. There are a few interesting studies in this area, California's agricultural section's tug-of-war with its residents for water is the biggest one that comes to mind, and the lesson you get is that industry uses up the lion's share of the water out of greed and sloth, but enough pressure will force them to curtail usage.

bluGill 8y ago

All the places with viable logistics have ALWAYS been full. Nobody sane overbuilds infrastructure by much: you can't afford it. Instead civilization is constantly in a cycle of upgrade as required. It has been this way for thousands of years.