5 ms·

I have a feeling, based on years of reading peer reviewed material, that the brain can store quantum information or something mathematically similar. Go ahead a

I have a feeling, based on years of reading peer reviewed material, that the brain can store quantum information or something mathematically similar. Go ahead and down vote me all the way to the loony bin if you'd like... Or read this article: https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-spin-on-the-quantum-brain-20161102/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-spin-on-the-quantum-bra... There have also been empirically successful applications of quantum theoretical ideas to cognitive studies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cognition?wprov=sfla1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cognition?wprov=sfla... So while I appreciate that the article is taking into account the plausibility of "both" possibilities, it strikes me to be an uncannily "classical" question.

bitL 8y ago
My feeling is it's something more advanced than Quantum Theory we haven't discovered yet ;-) Like when humans had no clue about radioactivity and once we were able to measure it, many things started to make sense.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
SubiculumCode 8y ago
Thanks for the quant article. I would not be surprised at all if consciousness ends up being a quantum phenomenon. I say that as a cogneuro guy, but with no training in quantum mechanics, so pinch of salt and all.
red75prime 8y ago
Computers can store structures designed to be mathematically similar to quantum information too (see [0] for example). It doesn't mean that computers can efficiently perform quantum computations. If there's evidence that humans can efficiently solve problems in BQP [1] complexity class, like cracking RSA encryption, I'd like to hear it. [0] http://quantum-studio.net/ http://quantum-studio.net/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BQP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BQP
- macawfish 8y ago
  I don't know of an example from BQP, but 3d protein folding is NP-complete and humans have outperformed computers at protein folding. Although I don't know how you'd even directly compare humans and computers. I suppose that's a big part of what this article is grappling with. The interesting thing to me is not if humans can solve exactly the same problems as quantum computers with lots of qubits (Quantum computers are not the identical to all of quantum theory!) The interesting question to me is if humans can hold and pass around irreducibly probabilistic states without collapsing them.
  - red75prime 8y ago
    Contemplation of brain cloning and consciousness creates a feeling of paradox, then no-cloning theorem comes to mind. Right?
    - red75prime 8y ago
      If it is indeed your line of reasoning, I don't understand how it is supposed to work. If the quantum state doesn't influence macroscopic behavior, then it's useless. If it does, then it will collapse.
      - macawfish 8y ago
        I was being unclear. I'm wondering if the brain might hold probabilistic states for extended ("macroscopic") periods of time so that they can be observed/collapsed later, but not immediately.
  - posterboy 8y ago
    A glass of water contains quantum information, too, doesn't mean it obviates that information other than by being just a glass of water.
akvadrako 8y ago
That's an interesting link — a priori it seems quite implausible because the brain is so warm and most quantum computers run near absolute zero. > it strikes me to be an uncannily "classical" question. Even if the brain is quantum, it's still a valid question. Some quantum degrees of freedom are discrete, like spin, while others like position are continuous.
- macawfish 8y ago
  I guess my point is that discrete observables can have continuous wave functions.
nootropicat 8y ago
The general hypothesis could be made nearly certain by a savant able to mentally factor sufficiently large numbers, or break elliptic curve cryptography. The only not-quantum possibility would be the unlikely case that these problems are solvable classically.

bitL 8y ago

My feeling is it's something more advanced than Quantum Theory we haven't discovered yet ;-) Like when humans had no clue about radioactivity and once we were able to measure it, many things started to make sense.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

SubiculumCode 8y ago

Thanks for the quant article. I would not be surprised at all if consciousness ends up being a quantum phenomenon. I say that as a cogneuro guy, but with no training in quantum mechanics, so pinch of salt and all.

red75prime 8y ago

Computers can store structures designed to be mathematically similar to quantum information too (see [0] for example). It doesn't mean that computers can efficiently perform quantum computations. If there's evidence that humans can efficiently solve problems in BQP [1] complexity class, like cracking RSA encryption, I'd like to hear it. [0] http://quantum-studio.net/ http://quantum-studio.net/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BQP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BQP

macawfish 8y ago
I don't know of an example from BQP, but 3d protein folding is NP-complete and humans have outperformed computers at protein folding. Although I don't know how you'd even directly compare humans and computers. I suppose that's a big part of what this article is grappling with. The interesting thing to me is not if humans can solve exactly the same problems as quantum computers with lots of qubits (Quantum computers are not the identical to all of quantum theory!) The interesting question to me is if humans can hold and pass around irreducibly probabilistic states without collapsing them.
- red75prime 8y ago
  Contemplation of brain cloning and consciousness creates a feeling of paradox, then no-cloning theorem comes to mind. Right?
  - red75prime 8y ago
    If it is indeed your line of reasoning, I don't understand how it is supposed to work. If the quantum state doesn't influence macroscopic behavior, then it's useless. If it does, then it will collapse.
    - macawfish 8y ago
      I was being unclear. I'm wondering if the brain might hold probabilistic states for extended ("macroscopic") periods of time so that they can be observed/collapsed later, but not immediately.
- posterboy 8y ago
  A glass of water contains quantum information, too, doesn't mean it obviates that information other than by being just a glass of water.

akvadrako 8y ago

That's an interesting link — a priori it seems quite implausible because the brain is so warm and most quantum computers run near absolute zero. > it strikes me to be an uncannily "classical" question. Even if the brain is quantum, it's still a valid question. Some quantum degrees of freedom are discrete, like spin, while others like position are continuous.

macawfish 8y ago
I guess my point is that discrete observables can have continuous wave functions.

nootropicat 8y ago

The general hypothesis could be made nearly certain by a savant able to mentally factor sufficiently large numbers, or break elliptic curve cryptography. The only not-quantum possibility would be the unlikely case that these problems are solvable classically.