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> Regulators will target the worst excesses Your confidence scares me. What about this, I have the same amount of evidence you have: Some regulators will targe

by chx 8y ago

> Regulators will target the worst excesses Your confidence scares me. What about this, I have the same amount of evidence you have: Some regulators will target the weakest. It's really easy to slap a few tens of thousand of euros fine on a small business. Sure, fining a big company for many tens, hundreds of millions makes news but a few ten thousands is a good income.

jacquesm 8y ago
> Some regulators will target the weakest. Do you have any evidence for this? I have plenty of evidence for the opposite, if you want I will collect it. Here is one sample dataset, NL: https://www.computable.nl/artikel/nieuws/overheid/6345059/250449/privacywaakhond-ap-legde-geen-boetes-op-in-2017.html https://www.computable.nl/artikel/nieuws/overheid/6345059/25... No fines in all of 2017, in spite of 10,009 data leaks that were reported. In one case there was a settlement of 48K, but it is not quite clear what the circumstances were, probably to protect the guilty. "De AP stelt in een samenvatting van het jaarverslag 2017 dat het niet altijd direct een onderzoek start. Het gaat eerst in gesprek met partijen die een overtreding begaan en in veel gevallen leiden die zogenoemde alternatieve interventies niet tot een officieel onderzoek." Rough translation: "The Authority says in the summary of their annual report for 2017 that it does not always immediately starts an investigation. It first tries to talk to the parties that have violated the law and in many cases these so called alternative interventions do not lead to an official inquiry."
- chx 8y ago
  Proof of what? The GDPR is not yet in force. Proof of Hungarian authorities targeting small businesses for minor or even non existing infractions? Here's one: the tax authority starts garnishing many taxes a few days after the payment deadline -- it's common the entrepreneur realizes they are in trouble when all the cash is gone from their bank account. But if you so want, I can find you any number of horror stories of how small businesses are treated in Hungary, now that they will have a chance to mess with rich westerns (as perceived at least), I have zero doubt they will take this chance.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    Well, you may be right. I don't have a crystal ball but so far all the other EU law that had this potential has not been activated in that way. VAT law for instance is a good candidate. I've missed one filing by a few days in 2016 because I was switching bookkeepers and I got fined 115 euros, it's my responsibility vv the tax authorities but the bookkeeper that messed up paid the fine so it didn't cost me anything. I don't really understand your tax authority example though, doesn't that mean the payments are late and that the tax authority is fully with in their right to take what's theirs? Did they take more than was their due?
    - chx 8y ago
      Nowhere in the (developed) world would the tax authority start garnishing without a notice first -- mostly because they might be in error. And yes, they did take more than their due, more than once.
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        That's not very nice of them. If I were in the receiving position on an action like that I'd take them to court. Let's hope that kind of behavior won't be the norm. But I wish the Hungarian Data Protection Authority much good luck trying such tactics against other EU companies, it will most likely not play out how they think it will. I recall a case of the Irish tax authority trying to fine EU companies for failure to pay VAT, that blew up pretty badly for them, and in the end it turned out they themselves had fucked up. Since then they've been well behaved. I've tried to find a citation for that particular case but can't find it. I own one of the companies that got fined.

by chx 8y ago

jacquesm 8y ago

> Some regulators will target the weakest. Do you have any evidence for this? I have plenty of evidence for the opposite, if you want I will collect it. Here is one sample dataset, NL: https://www.computable.nl/artikel/nieuws/overheid/6345059/250449/privacywaakhond-ap-legde-geen-boetes-op-in-2017.html https://www.computable.nl/artikel/nieuws/overheid/6345059/25... No fines in all of 2017, in spite of 10,009 data leaks that were reported. In one case there was a settlement of 48K, but it is not quite clear what the circumstances were, probably to protect the guilty. "De AP stelt in een samenvatting van het jaarverslag 2017 dat het niet altijd direct een onderzoek start. Het gaat eerst in gesprek met partijen die een overtreding begaan en in veel gevallen leiden die zogenoemde alternatieve interventies niet tot een officieel onderzoek." Rough translation: "The Authority says in the summary of their annual report for 2017 that it does not always immediately starts an investigation. It first tries to talk to the parties that have violated the law and in many cases these so called alternative interventions do not lead to an official inquiry."

chx 8y ago
Proof of what? The GDPR is not yet in force. Proof of Hungarian authorities targeting small businesses for minor or even non existing infractions? Here's one: the tax authority starts garnishing many taxes a few days after the payment deadline -- it's common the entrepreneur realizes they are in trouble when all the cash is gone from their bank account. But if you so want, I can find you any number of horror stories of how small businesses are treated in Hungary, now that they will have a chance to mess with rich westerns (as perceived at least), I have zero doubt they will take this chance.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  Well, you may be right. I don't have a crystal ball but so far all the other EU law that had this potential has not been activated in that way. VAT law for instance is a good candidate. I've missed one filing by a few days in 2016 because I was switching bookkeepers and I got fined 115 euros, it's my responsibility vv the tax authorities but the bookkeeper that messed up paid the fine so it didn't cost me anything. I don't really understand your tax authority example though, doesn't that mean the payments are late and that the tax authority is fully with in their right to take what's theirs? Did they take more than was their due?
  - chx 8y ago
    Nowhere in the (developed) world would the tax authority start garnishing without a notice first -- mostly because they might be in error. And yes, they did take more than their due, more than once.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      That's not very nice of them. If I were in the receiving position on an action like that I'd take them to court. Let's hope that kind of behavior won't be the norm. But I wish the Hungarian Data Protection Authority much good luck trying such tactics against other EU companies, it will most likely not play out how they think it will. I recall a case of the Irish tax authority trying to fine EU companies for failure to pay VAT, that blew up pretty badly for them, and in the end it turned out they themselves had fucked up. Since then they've been well behaved. I've tried to find a citation for that particular case but can't find it. I own one of the companies that got fined.