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> “we will never give up. All information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false.” That seems like a rather dangerous philosophy.

GuiA 8y ago
Indeed. Reminds me of Japan's Emperor's broadcast announcing the surrender of Japan, and the confusion/internal opposition that surrounded it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/dower-defeat.html?mcubz=3 https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/do...
ucaetano 8y ago
This is common within pacifist countries. In Switzerland during WW2 nobody in the Federal Government (not even the head of the military) had the formal authority to surrender the country. Citizens were instructed and trained to regard any news of Switzerland surrendering as propaganda.
- rasmusei 8y ago
  Any other examples, or other support that it is "commmon"? More common than in other countries? I would be happy to learn more.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> That seems like a rather dangerous philosophy. Well, it's dangerous to your population once you are attacked, especially by a superior enemy, but it's also a deterrent to attack in the first place. The net cost or benefit depends on a fairly complex balancing of concerns.
- chrisbennet 8y ago
  "In World War II, the Swiss had defenses no other country had. Let's begin with the rifle in every home combined with the Alpine terrain. When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home." http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm
  - asdsa5325 8y ago
    And do you think that the Swiss' view on being invaded hasn't changed over the last 106 years?
    - mkempe 8y ago
      It has not. Switzerland maintains a very strongly, openly armed neutrality.
      - asdsa5325 8y ago
        Well, you are wrong.
jaggirs 8y ago
I'd say it's a deterring statement and/or a way to boost confidence in the population, not something they would hold on to if it really came to it.
mkempe 8y ago
Swedish military doctrine was (and I expect remains) that: a) it is impossible to prevent the enemy from attempting an attack; b) we can make it as painful as possible to them, and our goal is to repel the invader from Swedish soil within days; and c) we will immediately mobilize all resources in the country to fight back, bringing hundreds of thousands of soldiers into their pre-assigned positions within 24 hours, abandoning all economic activity for the sake of total defense, so that whatever the enemy thought was a benefit in attacking Sweden, it will have been completely nullified. Switzerland had a similar doctrine, and communicated it explicitly to potential invaders in the 20th century: try to invade the country and we will destroy all means of transportation in the plains, withdraw the army into mountain fortresses (e.g. air bases literally built inside mountains with tunnels serving as landing/take-off strips), and keep attacking you until the ends of time. Also, Swiss men keep their military rifles at home, with sufficient munition to fight their way to their assigned base in case of war. It is interesting that neither country has been attacked over the last several hundred years, even while surrounded by fighting parties during WW II. I think armed neutrality is a beautiful thing.
- kinsomo 8y ago
  IIRC, Swedish military doctrine assumes that much of their main military infrastructure will be quickly destroyed in an attack, so their forces are designed to disperse and operate from with minimal resources in difficult conditions. For instance, their main fighter is designed to operate from public roads with a small maintenance crew: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_and_maintenance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_a... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip#Sweden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49L9BlYQSjw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49L9BlYQSjw
  - dsego 8y ago
    Yet instead of new Gripens, Croatian government decides to buy old used F16s from Israel.
asdsa5325 8y ago
So you'd rather their philosophy be to bend over and accept Russia? If that was there philosophy, Russia would already be there...

GuiA 8y ago

Indeed. Reminds me of Japan's Emperor's broadcast announcing the surrender of Japan, and the confusion/internal opposition that surrounded it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/dower-defeat.html?mcubz=3 https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/do...

ucaetano 8y ago

This is common within pacifist countries. In Switzerland during WW2 nobody in the Federal Government (not even the head of the military) had the formal authority to surrender the country. Citizens were instructed and trained to regard any news of Switzerland surrendering as propaganda.

rasmusei 8y ago
Any other examples, or other support that it is "commmon"? More common than in other countries? I would be happy to learn more.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> That seems like a rather dangerous philosophy. Well, it's dangerous to your population once you are attacked, especially by a superior enemy, but it's also a deterrent to attack in the first place. The net cost or benefit depends on a fairly complex balancing of concerns.

chrisbennet 8y ago
"In World War II, the Swiss had defenses no other country had. Let's begin with the rifle in every home combined with the Alpine terrain. When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home." http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm
- asdsa5325 8y ago
  And do you think that the Swiss' view on being invaded hasn't changed over the last 106 years?
  - mkempe 8y ago
    It has not. Switzerland maintains a very strongly, openly armed neutrality.
    - asdsa5325 8y ago
      Well, you are wrong.

jaggirs 8y ago

I'd say it's a deterring statement and/or a way to boost confidence in the population, not something they would hold on to if it really came to it.

mkempe 8y ago

Swedish military doctrine was (and I expect remains) that: a) it is impossible to prevent the enemy from attempting an attack; b) we can make it as painful as possible to them, and our goal is to repel the invader from Swedish soil within days; and c) we will immediately mobilize all resources in the country to fight back, bringing hundreds of thousands of soldiers into their pre-assigned positions within 24 hours, abandoning all economic activity for the sake of total defense, so that whatever the enemy thought was a benefit in attacking Sweden, it will have been completely nullified. Switzerland had a similar doctrine, and communicated it explicitly to potential invaders in the 20th century: try to invade the country and we will destroy all means of transportation in the plains, withdraw the army into mountain fortresses (e.g. air bases literally built inside mountains with tunnels serving as landing/take-off strips), and keep attacking you until the ends of time. Also, Swiss men keep their military rifles at home, with sufficient munition to fight their way to their assigned base in case of war. It is interesting that neither country has been attacked over the last several hundred years, even while surrounded by fighting parties during WW II. I think armed neutrality is a beautiful thing.

kinsomo 8y ago
IIRC, Swedish military doctrine assumes that much of their main military infrastructure will be quickly destroyed in an attack, so their forces are designed to disperse and operate from with minimal resources in difficult conditions. For instance, their main fighter is designed to operate from public roads with a small maintenance crew: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_and_maintenance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_a... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip#Sweden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49L9BlYQSjw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49L9BlYQSjw
- dsego 8y ago
  Yet instead of new Gripens, Croatian government decides to buy old used F16s from Israel.

asdsa5325 8y ago

So you'd rather their philosophy be to bend over and accept Russia? If that was there philosophy, Russia would already be there...