10 ms·

Sweden distributes 'be prepared for war' leaflet to all 4.8m homes

77 points by plg 8y ago

viksit 8y ago
This reminds me of a recent Netflix show called "Occupied", whose premise runs something like this, > In the near future, Russia initiates a "silk glove" invasion of Norway to restart oil production, but soon uncertainty, chaos and danger erupt. More here [1]. That show gave a really interesting look into how a Russian invasion of a Scandinavian country may look like. [1] http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/02/02/occupied_a_political_thriller_on_climate_change_now_on_netflix_reviewed.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/02/02/occupied_...
- sorokod 8y ago
  The Russians had a go at Finland in 1939. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
  - jdblair 8y ago
    And Russia kept part of the land they gained. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    This example is often used to convince people that the Russians aren’t a scary adversary but this isnt a good example. In 1940 the Soviet army was in a pretty bad shape, the Russian committed a fairly small number of personnel and equipment during the Winter and Continuation wars in comparison the initial defensive force in operation Barbarossa was 3 million soldiers, the battle of Leningrad seen about 6 million Russian troops in total and out of those Russia lost about 2 million. While winning is winning Finland faught against an inexperienced, poorly trained, poorly equipped Russian army that at the time was fighting for essentially nothing. Also that link isn’t the whole story Russia was fighting a trench and guerilla war in Finland until 1944 the Finns were very well equipped, well armed, and heavily supported by the Germans fighting while dug in on their home turf in a region where logistics were a nightmare and more importantly they faught against a very preoccupied enemy for those 3 years as Russia was invaded in 1941. I also find it pretty amusing that people always mention the Winter war but not what came after I guess the time when Finland sided with the Germans, providing support and logistics including naval and air bases to the Germans and invadded Russia in 1941 which made the seige of Leningrad possible isn’t as foundly remembered. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War
    - kinsomo 8y ago
      > I also find it pretty amusing that people always mention the Winter war but not what came after I guess the time when Finland sided with the Germans, providing support and logistics including naval and air bases to the Germans and invading Russia later which lead to the seige of Leningrad isn’t as foundly remembered. I don't envy the Finns of the 20th century. They were wedged in an extremely awkward spot for much of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization
      - dogma1138 8y ago
        Don’t get me wrong I don’t blame them the Germans were their only real possible ally it’s just amusing to me that people always seem to forgo that period. That said the Finns weren’t as passive as one might think they sought out to gain the territory they lost and they went into the alliance with Germany quite willingly and even proactively.
        mkempe 8y ago
        You seem to have quite an axe to grind against Finland. Since Soviet Russia was an ally of the USA and UK for the second half of WW 2, and Soviet Russia had already attacked Finland, still occupied large territories, and intended to take the rest of the country -- what were the Finns supposed to do in order to survive against the Soviets? objectively, why start a fight against the new enemy of their enemy? Similar question for the people of Poland, attacked by both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union at the outset of WW 2. Do you denounce them because some resistance eventually worked along with the Red Army when they pushed out the occupying Nazis? what about the resistance who fought against the Red Army?
        dogma1138 8y ago
        What exactly in my post indicated that I have any axe to grind with Finland of all places? Finland and Russia have a pretty long and complicated history dating to the napoleonic wars. In more "recent" history Russia and Finland were at odds since the Russian civil war and the Finnish civil war that followed. During the Finnish civil war the "Whites" which one were already supported by Germany with Mannerheim which remained the commander of the Finnish forces through WW2 having a pretty close relationship with Germany. Overall even prior to the winter war Finland was not exactly "neutral" or to be more exact passive and the whole concept of "greater finland" after the Finnish civil war wasn't just a shrug. During WW2 the Finns acted in their own best interest and they were not coerced into every action by either Russia or Germany as they had a pretty clear agenda of their own even if they could not act on it all the time due to well them being Finland. To their credit they are the only country that managed to fight both the allies and the axis with the same government as after Finland broke the Ryti–Ribbentrop agreement by negotiating a separate peace with Russia (or well the Soviet Union) they had essentially to spend the next 7 months "fighting" the German forces with Russian troops supporting them nonetheless but for all accounts the "lapland war" had only a few engagements. Finland also gave us the only known recording of Hitler outside of his speeches where he bitched about losing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_and_Mannerheim_recording https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_and_Mannerheim_recordin....
StanislavPetrov 8y ago
As a US citizen, its heartening to know that our government doesn't have a monopoly on fearmongering and war propaganda.
- lovich 8y ago
  Russia invaded and annexed land from a neighboring country already in 2014 and hasn't toned down any of their rhetoric. It's not fearmongering when they proven that they will attack others. That would be like calling an Islamic country fear mongering if they prepared for a US attack after the US said they had WMDs.
  - StanislavPetrov 8y ago
    We (the USA) literally engineered a coup in neighboring Ukraine in 2014 in our continued efforts to surround Russia with military bases (as we do with every country that isn't a client state of ours). No matter how many times I see it, its astounding to see how the educated readers of HN are so totally ignorant of (even current) history and how susceptible to propaganda they are. It just goes to show how tenuous the relationship between education, awareness and critical thinking is - if it exists at all. >“I think (Yatseniuk) is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. What he needs is (Klitschko) and (Tyahnybok) on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week,” Nuland said in the recording. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-a...
    - zzzcpan 8y ago
      > We (the USA) literally engineered a coup in neighboring Ukraine in 2014 This is literally Russian propaganda.
      - StanislavPetrov 8y ago
        Reality is a harsh mistress. The state of our current society, and the world, can be almost entirely explained by a near-universal ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills. We have spent rougly $5.1 billion dollars via USAAID and other governmental and quasi-governmental agencies over decades to build our influence and work towards installing a friendly regime. This is not up for debate among anyone, in any country, that is even barely aware of the facts. https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/politics/dollars-for-democracy-us-aid-to-ukraine-challenged.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/politics/dollars-for-demo... Assistant Secy. of State Victoria Nuland (and wife of arch neo-con Robert Kagan) was literally recorded discussing the coup with US ambassador to the Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt about who to install as Prime Minister before the coup happened. The veracity of this recording is not disputed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk Nobody remotely reasonable and intelligent can understand the history and the actions taken (let alone listen to the smoking-gun recording) and not be absolutely certain what took place here. That is even without considering the long, long history we have of toppling governments and regimes we deem "unfriendly". Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.
Willson50 8y ago
> “we will never give up. All information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false.” That seems like a rather dangerous philosophy.
- GuiA 8y ago
  Indeed. Reminds me of Japan's Emperor's broadcast announcing the surrender of Japan, and the confusion/internal opposition that surrounded it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/dower-defeat.html?mcubz=3 https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/do...
- ucaetano 8y ago
  This is common within pacifist countries. In Switzerland during WW2 nobody in the Federal Government (not even the head of the military) had the formal authority to surrender the country. Citizens were instructed and trained to regard any news of Switzerland surrendering as propaganda.
  - rasmusei 8y ago
    Any other examples, or other support that it is "commmon"? More common than in other countries? I would be happy to learn more.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > That seems like a rather dangerous philosophy. Well, it's dangerous to your population once you are attacked, especially by a superior enemy, but it's also a deterrent to attack in the first place. The net cost or benefit depends on a fairly complex balancing of concerns.
  - chrisbennet 8y ago
    "In World War II, the Swiss had defenses no other country had. Let's begin with the rifle in every home combined with the Alpine terrain. When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home." http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm
legostormtroopr 8y ago
Sweden is already at war, this may be the first and far too late admission of that. Sweden has been too lax on accepting migrants over past 5 years at least, allowing them to resist integration. There are areas of Sweden public utilities refuse to service, grenade attacks happen frequently and sexual assaults are becoming far more frequent.
- eesmith 8y ago
  Which areas of Sweden are being refused public utility service? Whenever I hear (primarily from xenophobic press in the US and UK) about "no-go zone" areas of Sweden, the response from Sweden seems to be a quizzical "what are you talking about?" Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sweden-crime-no-go-zone-police/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sweden-crime-no-go-zone-po... . And the various claims about rape, sexual assault, and other sex crimes appears to be more tied to how Sweden defines and counts those incidents than anything else. Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-... . After reading about Sweden's definition a few years ago, I think their definition is correct. Eg, if a married woman says that her husband has raped her ever other day for a year then that should be counted as 180 rapes, not the 1 or even 0 that it might be in other countries.
  - Yetanfou 8y ago
    About the 'no-go zones' you might want to listen to people who have to deal with them daily, ambulance personnel being among them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE https://www.reddit.com/r/svenskpolitik/comments/5wgrzv/head_of_swedish_ambulance_drivers_union_nogo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/svenskpolitik/comments/5wgrzv/head_... On the subject of Swedish rape statistics it is interesting to know that the number of reported rapes has increased markedly: https://www.bra.se/brott-och-statistik/statistik-utifran-brottstyper/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html https://www.bra.se/brott-och-statistik/statistik-utifran-bro... ...the number of resolved rape cases has gone down: https://www.svd.se/andelen-uppklarade-valdtakter-sjunker https://www.svd.se/andelen-uppklarade-valdtakter-sjunker ...while the willingness to report rape has gone down as well: http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1483976862908/2016_Utsatthet_for_brott_2015.pdf http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1483976... (page 9)
chvid 8y ago
As someone living next door. I am curious what Swedes actually think of this? Do you see the current Russia as a credible threat? As your country’s biggest security threat? Denmark had the strategically well located island of Bornholm occupied by the soviets after the end of the 2nd world. But most Danes today would see the chances of a Russian invasion more remote than ever. We are a NATO member I suppose that makes a big difference.
- dmannorreys 8y ago
  I don't see Russia as a threat to the entire Sweden. I do, however, consider Russia a threat to some key locations like Gotland. But as far as threats go, I consider Russia to be Sweden's greatest threat, even if that threat is rather small.
- arojn 8y ago
  I don't think many people see it as an immediate threat. But between unpredictable American policies affecting regional politics or the global economy, the Chinese bullying countries like Norway and the Russians trying to affect politics in other countries this could all change relatively quickly. PS. The brochure can be downloaded here: https://www.msb.se/en/Tools/News/The-brochure-If-Crisis-or-War-Comes-is-available-to-download/ https://www.msb.se/en/Tools/News/The-brochure-If-Crisis-or-W...
Yetanfou 8y ago
I live in Sweden. The country is doing many... irrational... things these days. The country is for a large part dependent on imported foodsources, this in contrast to the way it used to be half a century ago so it is in a bad position if war or catastrophe were to actually happen upon it. The Swedish defence force ('Totalförsvaret', the combination of all military and non-military organisations responsible for the defence of the country) is in a bad shape and numerically not up to the task of repelling a serious offender - the estimates are that the defence would crumble in a matter of hours to some days at the most. Just last week the island of Gotland - strategically located in the Baltic - got a permanently stationed regiment again, something which was done away with at the end of the cold war. Meanwhile last weekend two [1] people [2] were shot again in two days in Göteborg (edit: and I just saw that another likely murder victim was found today [2.5]), two attempted rapes in Östersund after which the police says they expect much more like this so people should not go out alone at night but they might as well get used to 'this being the new normal' [3], comparable to Sadiq Khan (the major of London) claiming that terror attacks are just part and parcel of life in the big city. Elsewhere a police station was closed because the safety of the people working there can not be guaranteed [4]. In other words, Sweden has much more to fear from the enemy within than from any outside aggressor. What made the Scandinavian countries into the success stories they've been held up to be for the last 50 years was for a large part due to the strong social cohesion and the inherent trust in authorities 'doing the right thing', this goes especially for Sweden. That same trust has now been broken, possibly beyond repair - this remains to be seen. The 'social contract' which provided a well-functioning welfare state at the price of some of the highest marginal taxes has been broken, Swedish healthcare is in a crisis with longer and longer waiting times, the once tranquil and peaceful society is now almost daily reminded of the changed reality by news of the next shooting/stabbing/rape/robbery, the police has lost control over a multitude of areas which are now under gang rule. One of the things playing a big role in the large discrepancy between the words and deeds of those in power in Sweden is the upcoming elections in September this year. The ruling parties (social democrats and greens) both stand to lose a large part of their constituency while the one party they have all been accusing of being 'racist' - but whose politics the social democrats are now by and large claiming as their own - seems to be on a winning streak. That party has its roots in the radical right-wing movement which is the major reason for all other parties to shun them, even though they might end up becoming the biggest party in Sweden. Oddly enough the fact that the social democrats were in line with the German National Socialist Democratic Workers Party (NSDAP, better known as the 'Nazi party') before and during the first years of the second world war while the greens have a strong affiliation with both communist as well as islamist movements does not seem to be reason enough to shun them. In other words, Swedish politics is a mess and it will take a long time to sort it all out. It is also uncertain what will rise out of the shambles. [1] https://www.svd.se/skottskadad-man-hittad-i-molndal https://www.svd.se/skottskadad-man-hittad-i-molndal [2] https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/a2x8bA/person-skjuten-i-centrala-goteborg https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/a2x8bA/person-skjuten-i... [2.5] https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/dod-person-hittad-i-goteborg/ https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/dod-person-hittad-i-gotebo... [2.5] https://www.svd.se/dod-person-hittad-i-goteborg-5571 https://www.svd.se/dod-person-hittad-i-goteborg-5571 [2.5] https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/ngKV1o/dod-person-hittad-pa-hisingen--polis-utreder-misstankt-mord https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/ngKV1o/dod-person-hitta... [3] https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=78&artikel=6957126 https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=78&arti... [4] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/polisreceptionen-i-astorp-bommas-igen-bristande-sakerhet?cmpid=del%3Afb%3A20180518%3Apolisreceptionen-i-astorp-bommas-igen-bristande-sakerhet%3Anyh%3Alp https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/polisreception...
moneytide1 8y ago
It's as if war occurs when too many resources are sitting idle not being mass deployed for some common goal.
- bostik 8y ago
  Traditionally war has been the only socially acceptable way of getting rid of excess male population.
mindcrash 8y ago
It's pretty crazy to see Sweden preparing for war against Russia, while a much bigger threat to both native and non-native Swedes resides in the streets of major cities like Stockholm or Malmo. Or at least I can't seem to think of a single city in Western Europe where throwing actual hand grenades around is a pretty usual crime other than Malmo. [1][2][3][4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe... [2] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43667367 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43667367 [3] http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/10/sweden-has-a-problem-with-hand-grenades-and-here-s-why http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/10/sweden-has-a-problem-with... [4] https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-is-soaring-when-will-politicians-act/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-...

77 points by plg 8y ago

This reminds me of a recent Netflix show called "Occupied", whose premise runs something like this, > In the near future, Russia initiates a "silk glove" invasion of Norway to restart oil production, but soon uncertainty, chaos and danger erupt. More here [1]. That show gave a really interesting look into how a Russian invasion of a Scandinavian country may look like. [1] http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/02/02/occupied_a_political_thriller_on_climate_change_now_on_netflix_reviewed.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/02/02/occupied_...

sorokod 8y ago
The Russians had a go at Finland in 1939. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
- jdblair 8y ago
  And Russia kept part of the land they gained. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia
- dogma1138 8y ago
  This example is often used to convince people that the Russians aren’t a scary adversary but this isnt a good example. In 1940 the Soviet army was in a pretty bad shape, the Russian committed a fairly small number of personnel and equipment during the Winter and Continuation wars in comparison the initial defensive force in operation Barbarossa was 3 million soldiers, the battle of Leningrad seen about 6 million Russian troops in total and out of those Russia lost about 2 million. While winning is winning Finland faught against an inexperienced, poorly trained, poorly equipped Russian army that at the time was fighting for essentially nothing. Also that link isn’t the whole story Russia was fighting a trench and guerilla war in Finland until 1944 the Finns were very well equipped, well armed, and heavily supported by the Germans fighting while dug in on their home turf in a region where logistics were a nightmare and more importantly they faught against a very preoccupied enemy for those 3 years as Russia was invaded in 1941. I also find it pretty amusing that people always mention the Winter war but not what came after I guess the time when Finland sided with the Germans, providing support and logistics including naval and air bases to the Germans and invadded Russia in 1941 which made the seige of Leningrad possible isn’t as foundly remembered. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War
  - kinsomo 8y ago
    > I also find it pretty amusing that people always mention the Winter war but not what came after I guess the time when Finland sided with the Germans, providing support and logistics including naval and air bases to the Germans and invading Russia later which lead to the seige of Leningrad isn’t as foundly remembered. I don't envy the Finns of the 20th century. They were wedged in an extremely awkward spot for much of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      Don’t get me wrong I don’t blame them the Germans were their only real possible ally it’s just amusing to me that people always seem to forgo that period. That said the Finns weren’t as passive as one might think they sought out to gain the territory they lost and they went into the alliance with Germany quite willingly and even proactively.
      - mkempe 8y ago
        You seem to have quite an axe to grind against Finland. Since Soviet Russia was an ally of the USA and UK for the second half of WW 2, and Soviet Russia had already attacked Finland, still occupied large territories, and intended to take the rest of the country -- what were the Finns supposed to do in order to survive against the Soviets? objectively, why start a fight against the new enemy of their enemy? Similar question for the people of Poland, attacked by both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union at the outset of WW 2. Do you denounce them because some resistance eventually worked along with the Red Army when they pushed out the occupying Nazis? what about the resistance who fought against the Red Army?
        dogma1138 8y ago
        What exactly in my post indicated that I have any axe to grind with Finland of all places? Finland and Russia have a pretty long and complicated history dating to the napoleonic wars. In more "recent" history Russia and Finland were at odds since the Russian civil war and the Finnish civil war that followed. During the Finnish civil war the "Whites" which one were already supported by Germany with Mannerheim which remained the commander of the Finnish forces through WW2 having a pretty close relationship with Germany. Overall even prior to the winter war Finland was not exactly "neutral" or to be more exact passive and the whole concept of "greater finland" after the Finnish civil war wasn't just a shrug. During WW2 the Finns acted in their own best interest and they were not coerced into every action by either Russia or Germany as they had a pretty clear agenda of their own even if they could not act on it all the time due to well them being Finland. To their credit they are the only country that managed to fight both the allies and the axis with the same government as after Finland broke the Ryti–Ribbentrop agreement by negotiating a separate peace with Russia (or well the Soviet Union) they had essentially to spend the next 7 months "fighting" the German forces with Russian troops supporting them nonetheless but for all accounts the "lapland war" had only a few engagements. Finland also gave us the only known recording of Hitler outside of his speeches where he bitched about losing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_and_Mannerheim_recording https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_and_Mannerheim_recordin....

StanislavPetrov 8y ago

As a US citizen, its heartening to know that our government doesn't have a monopoly on fearmongering and war propaganda.

lovich 8y ago
Russia invaded and annexed land from a neighboring country already in 2014 and hasn't toned down any of their rhetoric. It's not fearmongering when they proven that they will attack others. That would be like calling an Islamic country fear mongering if they prepared for a US attack after the US said they had WMDs.
- StanislavPetrov 8y ago
  We (the USA) literally engineered a coup in neighboring Ukraine in 2014 in our continued efforts to surround Russia with military bases (as we do with every country that isn't a client state of ours). No matter how many times I see it, its astounding to see how the educated readers of HN are so totally ignorant of (even current) history and how susceptible to propaganda they are. It just goes to show how tenuous the relationship between education, awareness and critical thinking is - if it exists at all. >“I think (Yatseniuk) is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. What he needs is (Klitschko) and (Tyahnybok) on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week,” Nuland said in the recording. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-a...
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    > We (the USA) literally engineered a coup in neighboring Ukraine in 2014 This is literally Russian propaganda.
    - StanislavPetrov 8y ago
      Reality is a harsh mistress. The state of our current society, and the world, can be almost entirely explained by a near-universal ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills. We have spent rougly $5.1 billion dollars via USAAID and other governmental and quasi-governmental agencies over decades to build our influence and work towards installing a friendly regime. This is not up for debate among anyone, in any country, that is even barely aware of the facts. https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/politics/dollars-for-democracy-us-aid-to-ukraine-challenged.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/politics/dollars-for-demo... Assistant Secy. of State Victoria Nuland (and wife of arch neo-con Robert Kagan) was literally recorded discussing the coup with US ambassador to the Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt about who to install as Prime Minister before the coup happened. The veracity of this recording is not disputed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk Nobody remotely reasonable and intelligent can understand the history and the actions taken (let alone listen to the smoking-gun recording) and not be absolutely certain what took place here. That is even without considering the long, long history we have of toppling governments and regimes we deem "unfriendly". Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.

Willson50 8y ago

> “we will never give up. All information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false.” That seems like a rather dangerous philosophy.

GuiA 8y ago
Indeed. Reminds me of Japan's Emperor's broadcast announcing the surrender of Japan, and the confusion/internal opposition that surrounded it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/dower-defeat.html?mcubz=3 https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/do...
ucaetano 8y ago
This is common within pacifist countries. In Switzerland during WW2 nobody in the Federal Government (not even the head of the military) had the formal authority to surrender the country. Citizens were instructed and trained to regard any news of Switzerland surrendering as propaganda.
- rasmusei 8y ago
  Any other examples, or other support that it is "commmon"? More common than in other countries? I would be happy to learn more.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> That seems like a rather dangerous philosophy. Well, it's dangerous to your population once you are attacked, especially by a superior enemy, but it's also a deterrent to attack in the first place. The net cost or benefit depends on a fairly complex balancing of concerns.
- chrisbennet 8y ago
  "In World War II, the Swiss had defenses no other country had. Let's begin with the rifle in every home combined with the Alpine terrain. When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home." http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/Target_Switzerland.htm

legostormtroopr 8y ago

Sweden is already at war, this may be the first and far too late admission of that. Sweden has been too lax on accepting migrants over past 5 years at least, allowing them to resist integration. There are areas of Sweden public utilities refuse to service, grenade attacks happen frequently and sexual assaults are becoming far more frequent.

eesmith 8y ago
Which areas of Sweden are being refused public utility service? Whenever I hear (primarily from xenophobic press in the US and UK) about "no-go zone" areas of Sweden, the response from Sweden seems to be a quizzical "what are you talking about?" Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sweden-crime-no-go-zone-police/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sweden-crime-no-go-zone-po... . And the various claims about rape, sexual assault, and other sex crimes appears to be more tied to how Sweden defines and counts those incidents than anything else. Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-... . After reading about Sweden's definition a few years ago, I think their definition is correct. Eg, if a married woman says that her husband has raped her ever other day for a year then that should be counted as 180 rapes, not the 1 or even 0 that it might be in other countries.
- Yetanfou 8y ago
  About the 'no-go zones' you might want to listen to people who have to deal with them daily, ambulance personnel being among them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE https://www.reddit.com/r/svenskpolitik/comments/5wgrzv/head_of_swedish_ambulance_drivers_union_nogo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/svenskpolitik/comments/5wgrzv/head_... On the subject of Swedish rape statistics it is interesting to know that the number of reported rapes has increased markedly: https://www.bra.se/brott-och-statistik/statistik-utifran-brottstyper/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html https://www.bra.se/brott-och-statistik/statistik-utifran-bro... ...the number of resolved rape cases has gone down: https://www.svd.se/andelen-uppklarade-valdtakter-sjunker https://www.svd.se/andelen-uppklarade-valdtakter-sjunker ...while the willingness to report rape has gone down as well: http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1483976862908/2016_Utsatthet_for_brott_2015.pdf http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1483976... (page 9)

chvid 8y ago

As someone living next door. I am curious what Swedes actually think of this? Do you see the current Russia as a credible threat? As your country’s biggest security threat? Denmark had the strategically well located island of Bornholm occupied by the soviets after the end of the 2nd world. But most Danes today would see the chances of a Russian invasion more remote than ever. We are a NATO member I suppose that makes a big difference.

dmannorreys 8y ago
I don't see Russia as a threat to the entire Sweden. I do, however, consider Russia a threat to some key locations like Gotland. But as far as threats go, I consider Russia to be Sweden's greatest threat, even if that threat is rather small.
arojn 8y ago
I don't think many people see it as an immediate threat. But between unpredictable American policies affecting regional politics or the global economy, the Chinese bullying countries like Norway and the Russians trying to affect politics in other countries this could all change relatively quickly. PS. The brochure can be downloaded here: https://www.msb.se/en/Tools/News/The-brochure-If-Crisis-or-War-Comes-is-available-to-download/ https://www.msb.se/en/Tools/News/The-brochure-If-Crisis-or-W...

Yetanfou 8y ago

I live in Sweden. The country is doing many... irrational... things these days. The country is for a large part dependent on imported foodsources, this in contrast to the way it used to be half a century ago so it is in a bad position if war or catastrophe were to actually happen upon it. The Swedish defence force ('Totalförsvaret', the combination of all military and non-military organisations responsible for the defence of the country) is in a bad shape and numerically not up to the task of repelling a serious offender - the estimates are that the defence would crumble in a matter of hours to some days at the most. Just last week the island of Gotland - strategically located in the Baltic - got a permanently stationed regiment again, something which was done away with at the end of the cold war. Meanwhile last weekend two [1] people [2] were shot again in two days in Göteborg (edit: and I just saw that another likely murder victim was found today [2.5]), two attempted rapes in Östersund after which the police says they expect much more like this so people should not go out alone at night but they might as well get used to 'this being the new normal' [3], comparable to Sadiq Khan (the major of London) claiming that terror attacks are just part and parcel of life in the big city. Elsewhere a police station was closed because the safety of the people working there can not be guaranteed [4]. In other words, Sweden has much more to fear from the enemy within than from any outside aggressor. What made the Scandinavian countries into the success stories they've been held up to be for the last 50 years was for a large part due to the strong social cohesion and the inherent trust in authorities 'doing the right thing', this goes especially for Sweden. That same trust has now been broken, possibly beyond repair - this remains to be seen. The 'social contract' which provided a well-functioning welfare state at the price of some of the highest marginal taxes has been broken, Swedish healthcare is in a crisis with longer and longer waiting times, the once tranquil and peaceful society is now almost daily reminded of the changed reality by news of the next shooting/stabbing/rape/robbery, the police has lost control over a multitude of areas which are now under gang rule. One of the things playing a big role in the large discrepancy between the words and deeds of those in power in Sweden is the upcoming elections in September this year. The ruling parties (social democrats and greens) both stand to lose a large part of their constituency while the one party they have all been accusing of being 'racist' - but whose politics the social democrats are now by and large claiming as their own - seems to be on a winning streak. That party has its roots in the radical right-wing movement which is the major reason for all other parties to shun them, even though they might end up becoming the biggest party in Sweden. Oddly enough the fact that the social democrats were in line with the German National Socialist Democratic Workers Party (NSDAP, better known as the 'Nazi party') before and during the first years of the second world war while the greens have a strong affiliation with both communist as well as islamist movements does not seem to be reason enough to shun them. In other words, Swedish politics is a mess and it will take a long time to sort it all out. It is also uncertain what will rise out of the shambles. [1] https://www.svd.se/skottskadad-man-hittad-i-molndal https://www.svd.se/skottskadad-man-hittad-i-molndal [2] https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/a2x8bA/person-skjuten-i-centrala-goteborg https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/a2x8bA/person-skjuten-i... [2.5] https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/dod-person-hittad-i-goteborg/ https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/dod-person-hittad-i-gotebo... [2.5] https://www.svd.se/dod-person-hittad-i-goteborg-5571 https://www.svd.se/dod-person-hittad-i-goteborg-5571 [2.5] https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/ngKV1o/dod-person-hittad-pa-hisingen--polis-utreder-misstankt-mord https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/ngKV1o/dod-person-hitta... [3] https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=78&artikel=6957126 https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=78&arti... [4] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/polisreceptionen-i-astorp-bommas-igen-bristande-sakerhet?cmpid=del%3Afb%3A20180518%3Apolisreceptionen-i-astorp-bommas-igen-bristande-sakerhet%3Anyh%3Alp https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/polisreception...

moneytide1 8y ago

It's as if war occurs when too many resources are sitting idle not being mass deployed for some common goal.

bostik 8y ago
Traditionally war has been the only socially acceptable way of getting rid of excess male population.

mindcrash 8y ago

It's pretty crazy to see Sweden preparing for war against Russia, while a much bigger threat to both native and non-native Swedes resides in the streets of major cities like Stockholm or Malmo. Or at least I can't seem to think of a single city in Western Europe where throwing actual hand grenades around is a pretty usual crime other than Malmo. [1][2][3][4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe... [2] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43667367 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43667367 [3] http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/10/sweden-has-a-problem-with-hand-grenades-and-here-s-why http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/10/sweden-has-a-problem-with... [4] https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-is-soaring-when-will-politicians-act/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-...