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> It's interesting that drug deaths can so easily lead us into a moral panic in a way that obesity deaths do not. Because the obese likely are net contributors

> It's interesting that drug deaths can so easily lead us into a moral panic in a way that obesity deaths do not. Because the obese likely are net contributors[0][1]. They work for their most productive period, and often die "young" which just so happens to be right before they enter retirement. If you look at total cost over a lifetime a "healthy" person is far more expensive than an obese one because so much of the healthcare cost is back-loaded into older ages (drug costs, hip replacements, alzheimer's, additional cancers, heart surgeries, etc). And while the last few years of an obese individual's life is expensive too, we're talking about tens of years of similar level care for a "healthy" older person. Not to mention that most pension systems are substantially under-funded for current life expectancy. The obesity epidemic might save the pension system from complete collapse. None of these are moral arguments. I'm not going to defend obesity. But it is worth considering that if the "epidemic" continues the results likely won't worsen healthcare or pensions, but may in fact reduce total costs. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/#7ca5b0b964aa https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-...

lev99 8y ago
> Because the obese likely are net contributors While you did plenty to explain the economics of obesity in our health care system, you did not do enough to tie the economics of obesity back to morality. Sure obesity is probably a net contributor, but is that important when deciding what is moral? My gut says no, but I haven't formed an educated opinion on the matter.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  I don't think it makes any sense to talk about obesity as "moral" or "immoral."
- Someone1234 8y ago
  I'd argue, in spite of the name a "moral panic" isn't specifically about morals. That's why I didn't focus on the moral angle. Moral panics are obscure "bads" that a large number of people suddenly take interest in. Like violent video games or swine flu. Swine flu for example isn't immoral (or moral) it simply just is, but it still presented a moral panic when people were panicking about it. Obesity could become a moral panic but it hasn't yet because experts often squash the issue with facts, at least when applied to a larger society (nobody is arguing it is good for an individual or for family members of an individual, we're talking society scale).
irrational 8y ago
I've always thought the same thing about smokers. Other than the obnoxious second-hand smoke, why would we want to discourage people from smoking? Typically they will live long enough to pay decades of taxes and then die from lung cancer around retirement. Win-win.
- chipperyman573 8y ago
  Ancidotal, but the only time I hear people complain about smoking is when they are upset about second hand smoke - I don't see people complaining about vaping nearly as much (and even then it's usually just "they look stupid", not "they are being stupid for vaping"), even though there are some similar health risks (not as many, but inhailing steam will never be good for you, espically if it contains nicotine). Second hand smoke is espically evil because it's very common for young children to be inhailing it while their parents are smoking.
  - npongratz 8y ago
    > ... inhailing steam will never be good for you ... Guess I'll have to stay out of the sauna, then?
    - chipperyman573 8y ago
      Like everything else in life, moderation is key. Hot air in a sauna every once in a while is not going to be a problem (assuming you're otherwise healthy). Concentrated hot steam multiple times a day for months at a time could cause health problems.
      - function_seven 8y ago
        "Vaping" is somewhat a misnomer. The vapor is really tiny atomized droplets, and is not hot at all. Maybe warm, but far below anything that could cause heat damage to tissues. Yes, there is a tiny amount of actual vaporized (as in, a gas) liquid, the stuff that Leidenfrosts the rest of it off the hot coil. That all being said, your main point still stands. We don't know what the long term effects are of inhaling these droplets of propylene glycol, glycerol, nicotine, and flavor compounds.

lev99 8y ago

> Because the obese likely are net contributors While you did plenty to explain the economics of obesity in our health care system, you did not do enough to tie the economics of obesity back to morality. Sure obesity is probably a net contributor, but is that important when deciding what is moral? My gut says no, but I haven't formed an educated opinion on the matter.

emodendroket 8y ago
I don't think it makes any sense to talk about obesity as "moral" or "immoral."
Someone1234 8y ago
I'd argue, in spite of the name a "moral panic" isn't specifically about morals. That's why I didn't focus on the moral angle. Moral panics are obscure "bads" that a large number of people suddenly take interest in. Like violent video games or swine flu. Swine flu for example isn't immoral (or moral) it simply just is, but it still presented a moral panic when people were panicking about it. Obesity could become a moral panic but it hasn't yet because experts often squash the issue with facts, at least when applied to a larger society (nobody is arguing it is good for an individual or for family members of an individual, we're talking society scale).

irrational 8y ago

I've always thought the same thing about smokers. Other than the obnoxious second-hand smoke, why would we want to discourage people from smoking? Typically they will live long enough to pay decades of taxes and then die from lung cancer around retirement. Win-win.

chipperyman573 8y ago
Ancidotal, but the only time I hear people complain about smoking is when they are upset about second hand smoke - I don't see people complaining about vaping nearly as much (and even then it's usually just "they look stupid", not "they are being stupid for vaping"), even though there are some similar health risks (not as many, but inhailing steam will never be good for you, espically if it contains nicotine). Second hand smoke is espically evil because it's very common for young children to be inhailing it while their parents are smoking.
- npongratz 8y ago
  > ... inhailing steam will never be good for you ... Guess I'll have to stay out of the sauna, then?
  - chipperyman573 8y ago
    Like everything else in life, moderation is key. Hot air in a sauna every once in a while is not going to be a problem (assuming you're otherwise healthy). Concentrated hot steam multiple times a day for months at a time could cause health problems.
    - function_seven 8y ago
      "Vaping" is somewhat a misnomer. The vapor is really tiny atomized droplets, and is not hot at all. Maybe warm, but far below anything that could cause heat damage to tissues. Yes, there is a tiny amount of actual vaporized (as in, a gas) liquid, the stuff that Leidenfrosts the rest of it off the hot coil. That all being said, your main point still stands. We don't know what the long term effects are of inhaling these droplets of propylene glycol, glycerol, nicotine, and flavor compounds.