6 ms·

As others have noted, the depreciation and savings analysis is very misleading. Bottom line is that without the cars, he spends about $390 / month on Uber, and

by jly 8y ago

As others have noted, the depreciation and savings analysis is very misleading. Bottom line is that without the cars, he spends about $390 / month on Uber, and likely that average may have increased given the extreme low summer outlier months. In some areas where parking or insurance is expensive, this could mean large savings. In my area (Austin, TX), the all-in cost of owning a car with insurance is minimally more than this figure. You could lease one brand new, moderately priced car + average petrol costs for about the same amount. You could buy a cheap car and depreciation + maintenance would be even less.

iamgopal 8y ago
But so much of your mental time and energy will be wasted owning the car.
- justboxing 8y ago
  Yes. + if you live in a city, you are also fighting for on-street parking nights and weekends, and have to keep moving it every other week in order to avoid getting street cleaning tickets. Source: Me in San Francisco.
  - SpecialistEMT 8y ago
    to me, there's also the factor of liability when I'm driving a car. explanation, I can drive a car, for fun, to go on adventures, outside of the city, or take a ride at night, but when I'm making a reasonable salary, I'd rather uberx when I commute, and totally focus on work and my mindset, than road safety. Also sometimes I'm very stressed/tired after/before work, so driving is not that safe and safety is priceless.
  - lhorie 8y ago
    This is sort of by choice though, no? When I was looking to rent in SF, I always asked about parking arrangements. It's not that hard to find places that have garage parking arrangements, even in neighbourhoods with crowded street parking (e.g. sunset/richmond). Also, SF seems somewhat unique in how bad street parking gets. In, e.g. Toronto, street parking in some areas near downtown is reserved for residents and outer neighbourhoods tend to be spacious enough that households have dedicated parking spaces.
    - justboxing 8y ago
      > It's not that hard to find places that have garage parking arrangements Yes, there are such places. If you are willing to fork out an additional $300 (minimum) for the parking spot.
      - lhorie 8y ago
        $300? Wow, that's crazy. Curious whereabouts you were looking. Highest I saw when I was looking was $150 (around oct last year).
        justboxing 8y ago
        $150? No way. I'm talking Inner Richmond, Laurel Heights. Not even SOMA or Downtown where it's over $350. What area were you getting $150 for?
        lhorie 8y ago
        > SOMA or Downtown Ok yeah, in those areas, I can see it happening (but then again, I would never rent in those areas if I have a car...) I was looking for 2beds mostly around sunset and richmond (basically around areas with good elementary schools). I'm surprised you got such a different experience because when I was searching, many places had parking included, and "important" factors like parking/laundry didn't even seem to affect the price as much as other random reasons (e.g. recent renovations, landlord whims, the real estate agent mediating, perceived "transit convenience", etc) I spent a significant amount of time looking (I toured well over 50 places), and there's definitely a bunch of full-of-$%&@ people out there trying to rip you off. It's hard to find good deals, but not impossible, and I did get a few who even offered to waive deposit/first month/parking or to negotiate.
- azhenley 8y ago
  The few times I have been without a car, I avoided going anywhere because having to Uber makes it very real how much I'm spending just to go out each and every time. Like going to the park or to the grocery store. So instead I sat inside. I'll never go without owning a car again. The ability to travel freely and not feel some psychological burden about doing it is more than worth the cost of a car to me. NOTE: This is based on my experience living in Austin, Seattle, Memphis, and White Plains NY.
  - krisdol 8y ago
    Had you considered a bike? I've lived in Austin, spent time in Seattle. Ditching the car and using the savings to afford a more centrally-located place in those places could make sense, especially when the alternative is sitting at home doing nothing. It's not that scary to bike in those cities. I always dislike going to the park in a car in general because it just feels like I'm using the laziest and most polluting travel option to go exercise and enjoy nature.
    - azhenley 8y ago
      Definitely! I had a bike in both Austin and Seattle. I used it for commuting to/from work a few times a week and sometimes for picking up groceries. It just doesn't replace a car for me though, but it is an enjoyable addition (I didn't always live close to work, the climbing gyms I frequented were far from my home and office, my friends were spread out, and I like to go out hiking on weekends).
  - seansmccullough 8y ago
    I had the exact same experience living for a year in Seattle without a car. I saved some money, but I didn’t want to go anywhere.
  - spaceflunky 8y ago
    > I avoided going anywhere because having to Uber makes it very real how much I'm spending just to go out each and every time. This! It's so hard to get over that psychological resistance to seeing a ~$10-15 hit every time you want to go somewhere not too far from your house. Even if I know, rationally, that it is the same or less than I would spend for owning a car, I can't get over. There's a joy and freedom in owning a car and having to think about the real cost of every mile you drive. Ignorance is bliss I guess?
- kinsomo 8y ago
  >> In some areas where parking or insurance is expensive, this could mean large savings. In my area (Austin, TX), the all-in cost of owning a car with insurance is minimally more than this figure. You could lease one brand new, moderately priced car + average petrol costs for about the same amount. You could buy a cheap car and depreciation + maintenance would be even less. > But so much of your mental time and energy will be wasted owning the car. I don't follow. I haven't spent much "mental time and energy" on my car since I decided the on which model to purchase and finished all the paperwork. Getting it serviced is convenient, infrequent, and requires little time on my part. Driving requires attention, but I don't experience a notable gain in productive free time when I use Uber/Lyft. I do live in a car-friendly area with good parking and nearby gas stations, so YMMV.
  - quacker 8y ago
    Exactly. The biggest pain of car ownership is _buying_ the car in the first place. After that, it's unexpected repairs. Gas, maintenance, and cleaning are very easy. Unlike the author, I've never wanted/needed to do work on my morning commute (or anytime outside the office, really). If you live or work in a bustling downtown, then car ownership is tougher (but that's one of the reasons I don't work in a city like SF).

by jly 8y ago

iamgopal 8y ago

But so much of your mental time and energy will be wasted owning the car.

justboxing 8y ago
Yes. + if you live in a city, you are also fighting for on-street parking nights and weekends, and have to keep moving it every other week in order to avoid getting street cleaning tickets. Source: Me in San Francisco.
- SpecialistEMT 8y ago
  to me, there's also the factor of liability when I'm driving a car. explanation, I can drive a car, for fun, to go on adventures, outside of the city, or take a ride at night, but when I'm making a reasonable salary, I'd rather uberx when I commute, and totally focus on work and my mindset, than road safety. Also sometimes I'm very stressed/tired after/before work, so driving is not that safe and safety is priceless.
- lhorie 8y ago
  This is sort of by choice though, no? When I was looking to rent in SF, I always asked about parking arrangements. It's not that hard to find places that have garage parking arrangements, even in neighbourhoods with crowded street parking (e.g. sunset/richmond). Also, SF seems somewhat unique in how bad street parking gets. In, e.g. Toronto, street parking in some areas near downtown is reserved for residents and outer neighbourhoods tend to be spacious enough that households have dedicated parking spaces.
  - justboxing 8y ago
    > It's not that hard to find places that have garage parking arrangements Yes, there are such places. If you are willing to fork out an additional $300 (minimum) for the parking spot.
    - lhorie 8y ago
      $300? Wow, that's crazy. Curious whereabouts you were looking. Highest I saw when I was looking was $150 (around oct last year).
      - justboxing 8y ago
        $150? No way. I'm talking Inner Richmond, Laurel Heights. Not even SOMA or Downtown where it's over $350. What area were you getting $150 for?
        lhorie 8y ago
        > SOMA or Downtown Ok yeah, in those areas, I can see it happening (but then again, I would never rent in those areas if I have a car...) I was looking for 2beds mostly around sunset and richmond (basically around areas with good elementary schools). I'm surprised you got such a different experience because when I was searching, many places had parking included, and "important" factors like parking/laundry didn't even seem to affect the price as much as other random reasons (e.g. recent renovations, landlord whims, the real estate agent mediating, perceived "transit convenience", etc) I spent a significant amount of time looking (I toured well over 50 places), and there's definitely a bunch of full-of-$%&@ people out there trying to rip you off. It's hard to find good deals, but not impossible, and I did get a few who even offered to waive deposit/first month/parking or to negotiate.
azhenley 8y ago
The few times I have been without a car, I avoided going anywhere because having to Uber makes it very real how much I'm spending just to go out each and every time. Like going to the park or to the grocery store. So instead I sat inside. I'll never go without owning a car again. The ability to travel freely and not feel some psychological burden about doing it is more than worth the cost of a car to me. NOTE: This is based on my experience living in Austin, Seattle, Memphis, and White Plains NY.
- krisdol 8y ago
  Had you considered a bike? I've lived in Austin, spent time in Seattle. Ditching the car and using the savings to afford a more centrally-located place in those places could make sense, especially when the alternative is sitting at home doing nothing. It's not that scary to bike in those cities. I always dislike going to the park in a car in general because it just feels like I'm using the laziest and most polluting travel option to go exercise and enjoy nature.
  - azhenley 8y ago
    Definitely! I had a bike in both Austin and Seattle. I used it for commuting to/from work a few times a week and sometimes for picking up groceries. It just doesn't replace a car for me though, but it is an enjoyable addition (I didn't always live close to work, the climbing gyms I frequented were far from my home and office, my friends were spread out, and I like to go out hiking on weekends).
- seansmccullough 8y ago
  I had the exact same experience living for a year in Seattle without a car. I saved some money, but I didn’t want to go anywhere.
- spaceflunky 8y ago
  > I avoided going anywhere because having to Uber makes it very real how much I'm spending just to go out each and every time. This! It's so hard to get over that psychological resistance to seeing a ~$10-15 hit every time you want to go somewhere not too far from your house. Even if I know, rationally, that it is the same or less than I would spend for owning a car, I can't get over. There's a joy and freedom in owning a car and having to think about the real cost of every mile you drive. Ignorance is bliss I guess?
kinsomo 8y ago
>> In some areas where parking or insurance is expensive, this could mean large savings. In my area (Austin, TX), the all-in cost of owning a car with insurance is minimally more than this figure. You could lease one brand new, moderately priced car + average petrol costs for about the same amount. You could buy a cheap car and depreciation + maintenance would be even less. > But so much of your mental time and energy will be wasted owning the car. I don't follow. I haven't spent much "mental time and energy" on my car since I decided the on which model to purchase and finished all the paperwork. Getting it serviced is convenient, infrequent, and requires little time on my part. Driving requires attention, but I don't experience a notable gain in productive free time when I use Uber/Lyft. I do live in a car-friendly area with good parking and nearby gas stations, so YMMV.
- quacker 8y ago
  Exactly. The biggest pain of car ownership is _buying_ the car in the first place. After that, it's unexpected repairs. Gas, maintenance, and cleaning are very easy. Unlike the author, I've never wanted/needed to do work on my morning commute (or anytime outside the office, really). If you live or work in a bustling downtown, then car ownership is tougher (but that's one of the reasons I don't work in a city like SF).