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The really frustrating thing about this analysis is he completely ignores mileage. However you split it, that's a huge factor in a vehicle's maintenance cost an

The really frustrating thing about this analysis is he completely ignores mileage. However you split it, that's a huge factor in a vehicle's maintenance cost and depreciation. He compared maintenance on vehicle that clearly must be driven significantly more than he took Uber. Since he also has two other vehicles, he was clearly using those to drive too. He's sold them now, but he doesn't mention anything about the cost of Turo which he suggests as an alternative. I have no idea exactly what Uber breaks down to per mile, but ridester.com suggests $1 to $2.50 per mile. Let's assume it's as cheap as $1/mile to give him the benefit of the doubt and account for UberPool. ---- At $1/mile, he traveled 12k miles over 6 years - or 2000 miles/year. * Maintenance on 12k miles would basically be nothing. No major work should need to be done in a 12k window. Probably some wipers, some fluid changes, possibly a minor repair - let's just say it's $500. * Gas - Let's assume 20 miles/galloon and $4 per gallon. $2400 over 6 years. * Insurance - The most expensive part. 2000 miles/year is nothing, but insurance doesn't work that way. Let's assume a modest $500/year. - $3000 When you add that up it comes to roughly $6k left over. You can look at this two ways. 1. Try to buy a vehicle in the $6k range and assume no-resale value. You're not going to get a great car, but it will be doable. 2. Account for only depreciation. 12k is mostly negligible miles. The biggest lost will be due to aging. That being said, as long as you avoid relatively late-model year, you can purchase basically any mid-upper car and still break even (like an M3). Plus, in both cases you get the benefit of actually owning a vehicle and not relying on 3rd parties. ---- EDIT: He also mentions using Turo as an alternative for a car. That opens up the possibility of him renting out an own vehicle on Turo. An M3 would likely catch $100/day or more. Let's say $50/rental day gets to his pocket. If he rents a out his M3 just twice/month (e.g. one weekend) and assuming the driver hits the 100 mile/day standard. He'd add only 14.4k more miles (still not a lot) and make an additional $7.2k. That pays for depreciation and leaves him room to ride share while his car is gone.

tinus_hn 8y ago
12000 miles in 6 years is 2000 miles a year, not 500.
- SkyPuncher 8y ago
  Thank you. I'm a bloody idiot. I'll update. EDIT: I did all of the other math right except for the annual mileage.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  2000 miles a year is what I seem to drive in SF. 10000 is what I drove in Houston. Another example of how startups can be SF/Bay Area oriented.
milesskorpen 8y ago
Oil changes every ~6 months = $500+ on their own over six years
- mikeklaas 8y ago
  You'd do an oil change after 1000 miles?
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    There used to be recommendations to change oil for time as well as mileage. Has that changed? Also, not all driving is equal. Stop and go driving in the city is many times more wearing than highway driving.
    - pkaye 8y ago
      My Toyota Camry is now 10K/12 months oil change interval.
    - SkyPuncher 8y ago
      It's gotten more lenient. Lots of newer cars are coming out with 7.5k/6 month oil changes (realistically, that will go well beyond 6 months). Even some cars are coming out with 15k/12 month oil changes. Definitely longer than the 3k/3 month oil changes of the past.
- radiorental 8y ago
  you change oil every ~6K miles, not 6 months.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    There used to be recommendations to change oil for time as well as mileage. Has that changed?
    - X-Istence 8y ago
Spooky23 8y ago
The GSA Rate (about $0.55/mi) is an all-in cost based on medium sized passenger car. It covers, depreciation, insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc. It does not include parking, storage or other costs. Uber per-mile cost is going to be very variable based on the trip costs. Where I live, the minimum cost of an Uber is about $10. My daily 5 mile commute would be $17-24/day for a total distance of 9-12 miles. Cost of a car for that commute is $6. Obviously, the numbers really depend on how you drive and how much you walk. If you only drive your Honda Accord 2,500 miles a year (my commute), the fixed costs of a car don't amortize as well. If you drive s 15,000 miles a year, you'll line up with GSA. If you drive more, your costs will drop up to about 20% per mile. (Per mile insurance costs drop faster than increased maintenance expense) The problem is that reality is a bitch, and cars are generally the most economical way to do most things outside of Manhattan, or in some dreamland where you order everything online.
Balgair 8y ago
Even at $1/mile, uber and the like are very expensive relative to the average car in the US fleet. As many companies have cars for business use, that churches use vehicles commonly, and that medical use of cars is a necessity, the IRS publishes guidelines on how to deduct the use of an automobile [0]. From my understanding, they take in account many factors when publishing the standard, from wear and tear, to gas purchases, to depreciation, and to age of car. Going off the IRS, the 2017 standard mileage rate for something like uber should be $0.535/mile or less. I have commonly been reimbursed at this rate when driving my own car for work, job interviews, conferences, etc. and it is the business standard rate. [0]https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/2017-standard-mileage-rates-for-business-and-medical-and-moving-announced https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/2017-standard-mileage-rates-for...
rock_hard 8y ago
Let’s not forget about parking! In SF you pay $400/m for a parking spot and wherever you go you likely need a payed spot too! So $400 x 12 = $4800 $4800 x 6 years = $28,800 just for the parking spot on your block!
nealmueller 8y ago
Hi there. I'm Neal. The author of this analysis. As I recall, I included the cost of gas, and wear and tear in maintenance. The largest cost of cars is depreciation, and that's kept me from buying a car. The only car I would want (a nice car) is going to depreciate faster than I'm comfortable with. Since doing this analysis I've been carless for 2 years and have used Uber and google buses a lot to get from SF to Sunnyvale where I work and fly planes. Since writing I've used Getaround a few times and Turo never. There's a Getaround next door to me (a nice Volvo) and taking that is often less expensive than uber, but less desirable because I've gotten very addicted to the pleasure of not driving the car that I'm riding in. I like your suggestions here. I've considered buying a car and renting it out like you suggest, but I currently make $100,000/year doing that with the extra room in my SF house, and that's enough work that I can't afford to extra time to do it with a car also. And I think I'll make more money on Airbnb vs. Turo/Getaround. Homes are easier to monetize than cars. Again, thanks for digging in!
- bradlys 8y ago
  You get $8300/month from renting spare rooms in your house? That has got to be a big house and you are a /very/ wealthy individual. I bring this up because it seems like you ride Uber more for the convenience for your lifestyle and less for the cost factor. You could easily buy an old prius and not worry about most maintenance, deprecation, etc. Most ride shares I've been in have been a Prius or similar. As you said, "I've gotten very addicted to the pleasure of not driving the car that I'm riding in." You don't seem to value driving anywhere near being a passenger. Thus, selling the M3. <-- Not sure why you'd ever be buying an M3 if being driven around in a Prius at modest speeds was your thing. Was it just about the image?
  - nealmueller 8y ago
    Correction, ~$60k/year. Your point is valid that I could buy an old Prius, and I've considered it, or one of those plug-in cars that you can get for basically free after the California rebate, but it won't drive itself sadly. The M3 thing was a bit of a phase. I liked the way it sounded and drove, but I found myself wishing it had better self-driving features and that it was less easily nicked, dinged, and scuffed. One point of clarification; I don't self describe as wealthy or /very/ wealthy. The housing market in SF supports a healthy airbnb market.
henryw 8y ago
I had a BMW and drove fewer miles than that. The maintenance alone for random things breaking (run flat tires punctured, oil leaks, breaks, battery, etc.) was like $1k/yr. Depreciation was also huge over 6 years.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

tinus_hn 8y ago

12000 miles in 6 years is 2000 miles a year, not 500.

SkyPuncher 8y ago
Thank you. I'm a bloody idiot. I'll update. EDIT: I did all of the other math right except for the annual mileage.
stcredzero 8y ago
2000 miles a year is what I seem to drive in SF. 10000 is what I drove in Houston. Another example of how startups can be SF/Bay Area oriented.

milesskorpen 8y ago

Oil changes every ~6 months = $500+ on their own over six years

mikeklaas 8y ago
You'd do an oil change after 1000 miles?
- stcredzero 8y ago
  There used to be recommendations to change oil for time as well as mileage. Has that changed? Also, not all driving is equal. Stop and go driving in the city is many times more wearing than highway driving.
  - pkaye 8y ago
    My Toyota Camry is now 10K/12 months oil change interval.
  - SkyPuncher 8y ago
    It's gotten more lenient. Lots of newer cars are coming out with 7.5k/6 month oil changes (realistically, that will go well beyond 6 months). Even some cars are coming out with 15k/12 month oil changes. Definitely longer than the 3k/3 month oil changes of the past.
radiorental 8y ago
you change oil every ~6K miles, not 6 months.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  There used to be recommendations to change oil for time as well as mileage. Has that changed?
  - X-Istence 8y ago

Spooky23 8y ago

The GSA Rate (about $0.55/mi) is an all-in cost based on medium sized passenger car. It covers, depreciation, insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc. It does not include parking, storage or other costs. Uber per-mile cost is going to be very variable based on the trip costs. Where I live, the minimum cost of an Uber is about $10. My daily 5 mile commute would be $17-24/day for a total distance of 9-12 miles. Cost of a car for that commute is $6. Obviously, the numbers really depend on how you drive and how much you walk. If you only drive your Honda Accord 2,500 miles a year (my commute), the fixed costs of a car don't amortize as well. If you drive s 15,000 miles a year, you'll line up with GSA. If you drive more, your costs will drop up to about 20% per mile. (Per mile insurance costs drop faster than increased maintenance expense) The problem is that reality is a bitch, and cars are generally the most economical way to do most things outside of Manhattan, or in some dreamland where you order everything online.

Balgair 8y ago

Even at $1/mile, uber and the like are very expensive relative to the average car in the US fleet. As many companies have cars for business use, that churches use vehicles commonly, and that medical use of cars is a necessity, the IRS publishes guidelines on how to deduct the use of an automobile [0]. From my understanding, they take in account many factors when publishing the standard, from wear and tear, to gas purchases, to depreciation, and to age of car. Going off the IRS, the 2017 standard mileage rate for something like uber should be $0.535/mile or less. I have commonly been reimbursed at this rate when driving my own car for work, job interviews, conferences, etc. and it is the business standard rate. [0]https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/2017-standard-mileage-rates-for-business-and-medical-and-moving-announced https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/2017-standard-mileage-rates-for...

rock_hard 8y ago

Let’s not forget about parking! In SF you pay $400/m for a parking spot and wherever you go you likely need a payed spot too! So $400 x 12 = $4800 $4800 x 6 years = $28,800 just for the parking spot on your block!

nealmueller 8y ago

Hi there. I'm Neal. The author of this analysis. As I recall, I included the cost of gas, and wear and tear in maintenance. The largest cost of cars is depreciation, and that's kept me from buying a car. The only car I would want (a nice car) is going to depreciate faster than I'm comfortable with. Since doing this analysis I've been carless for 2 years and have used Uber and google buses a lot to get from SF to Sunnyvale where I work and fly planes. Since writing I've used Getaround a few times and Turo never. There's a Getaround next door to me (a nice Volvo) and taking that is often less expensive than uber, but less desirable because I've gotten very addicted to the pleasure of not driving the car that I'm riding in. I like your suggestions here. I've considered buying a car and renting it out like you suggest, but I currently make $100,000/year doing that with the extra room in my SF house, and that's enough work that I can't afford to extra time to do it with a car also. And I think I'll make more money on Airbnb vs. Turo/Getaround. Homes are easier to monetize than cars. Again, thanks for digging in!

bradlys 8y ago
You get $8300/month from renting spare rooms in your house? That has got to be a big house and you are a /very/ wealthy individual. I bring this up because it seems like you ride Uber more for the convenience for your lifestyle and less for the cost factor. You could easily buy an old prius and not worry about most maintenance, deprecation, etc. Most ride shares I've been in have been a Prius or similar. As you said, "I've gotten very addicted to the pleasure of not driving the car that I'm riding in." You don't seem to value driving anywhere near being a passenger. Thus, selling the M3. <-- Not sure why you'd ever be buying an M3 if being driven around in a Prius at modest speeds was your thing. Was it just about the image?
- nealmueller 8y ago
  Correction, ~$60k/year. Your point is valid that I could buy an old Prius, and I've considered it, or one of those plug-in cars that you can get for basically free after the California rebate, but it won't drive itself sadly. The M3 thing was a bit of a phase. I liked the way it sounded and drove, but I found myself wishing it had better self-driving features and that it was less easily nicked, dinged, and scuffed. One point of clarification; I don't self describe as wealthy or /very/ wealthy. The housing market in SF supports a healthy airbnb market.

henryw 8y ago

I had a BMW and drove fewer miles than that. The maintenance alone for random things breaking (run flat tires punctured, oil leaks, breaks, battery, etc.) was like $1k/yr. Depreciation was also huge over 6 years.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]