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What I saw over decades after Apollo was an unrelenting pounding by Congress, specifically Republicans in regards to cost and commercial payback, and Democrats

by awful 8y ago

What I saw over decades after Apollo was an unrelenting pounding by Congress, specifically Republicans in regards to cost and commercial payback, and Democrats in regards to why are we spending money out there when it is needed here, instead. Not a "deep state", of which even if it did exist would have then been filled with the unimaginative and risk adverse since because of my previous point.

virmundi 8y ago
Deep-state doesn't just mean conspiratorial "them/they". It means all of the bureaucratic individuals that haunt the halls of government between administrations and Congressional turnover. They drive policy. They are around for years. It's these unimaginative individuals that hold us back. Republicans wanted a payback. That's fine. Every colonial backer wants that. The argument could have been fusion. We'd extract helium on the moon. We'd also have the ability for meta-materials fabrication there given the weaker gravity. All of this could have been wrapped up in the Republican's favorite spending bucket: war readiness. Few argued for that at the time. The Democrats did what you said, tried to keep their plantations populated through bread and circuses. They lacked the ability to see how colonization would provide jobs and reduce crime by allowing people that don't fit well in society an outlet like the US had with its Western frontier. At this point the US is too indebted to support such a program, at least at a governmental level. I think our only hope is private parities establishing their own colonies in order to create meta-materials from mined asteroids.
- awful 8y ago
  Agreed with all your points; the old term was bureaucrats. The term "deep state", to me, is very loaded, reeking of conspiracy theories, especially in today's politics. Thanks for the response.
- hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
  Deep-state doesn't just mean conspiratorial "them/they". It means all of the bureaucratic individuals that haunt the halls of government between administrations and Congressional turnover. I have never seen this interpretation expressed by anyone else, ever.
- jamesmcnalley 8y ago
  > They lacked the ability to see how colonization would provide jobs and reduce crime by allowing people that don't fit well in society an outlet like the US had with its Western frontier. I’m not sure that criminals and other social misfits would be welcome in space exploration / colonization. Space is a harsh environment that requires cooperative behavior just to stay alive. Colonization occurred in places where there was oxygen, food and water. The main skills needed were very basic survival skills, and a willingness to murder the non-European (and sometimes European) locals that got in the way. We are a long way away from the point where we could tolerate a showdown at high noon in space, though that might make for a profitable summer blockbuster.
  - marksbrown 8y ago
    His point to my mind was that life is viewed too sacrosanct given that there are individuals willing to go.
    - jamesmcnalley 8y ago
      The prior poster was explicitly talking about reducing crime by exporting criminals. That’s not a cheap way to execute “undesirable” people, and if they aren’t killed on the way up, we end up with people who are not a great fit for the demands of living in space, however willing prisoners may be to go. I hope we can find a more humane way to deal with our troubled fellow humans than to send them on suicide missions.

by awful 8y ago

virmundi 8y ago

Deep-state doesn't just mean conspiratorial "them/they". It means all of the bureaucratic individuals that haunt the halls of government between administrations and Congressional turnover. They drive policy. They are around for years. It's these unimaginative individuals that hold us back. Republicans wanted a payback. That's fine. Every colonial backer wants that. The argument could have been fusion. We'd extract helium on the moon. We'd also have the ability for meta-materials fabrication there given the weaker gravity. All of this could have been wrapped up in the Republican's favorite spending bucket: war readiness. Few argued for that at the time. The Democrats did what you said, tried to keep their plantations populated through bread and circuses. They lacked the ability to see how colonization would provide jobs and reduce crime by allowing people that don't fit well in society an outlet like the US had with its Western frontier. At this point the US is too indebted to support such a program, at least at a governmental level. I think our only hope is private parities establishing their own colonies in order to create meta-materials from mined asteroids.

awful 8y ago
Agreed with all your points; the old term was bureaucrats. The term "deep state", to me, is very loaded, reeking of conspiracy theories, especially in today's politics. Thanks for the response.
hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
Deep-state doesn't just mean conspiratorial "them/they". It means all of the bureaucratic individuals that haunt the halls of government between administrations and Congressional turnover. I have never seen this interpretation expressed by anyone else, ever.
jamesmcnalley 8y ago
> They lacked the ability to see how colonization would provide jobs and reduce crime by allowing people that don't fit well in society an outlet like the US had with its Western frontier. I’m not sure that criminals and other social misfits would be welcome in space exploration / colonization. Space is a harsh environment that requires cooperative behavior just to stay alive. Colonization occurred in places where there was oxygen, food and water. The main skills needed were very basic survival skills, and a willingness to murder the non-European (and sometimes European) locals that got in the way. We are a long way away from the point where we could tolerate a showdown at high noon in space, though that might make for a profitable summer blockbuster.
- marksbrown 8y ago
  His point to my mind was that life is viewed too sacrosanct given that there are individuals willing to go.
  - jamesmcnalley 8y ago
    The prior poster was explicitly talking about reducing crime by exporting criminals. That’s not a cheap way to execute “undesirable” people, and if they aren’t killed on the way up, we end up with people who are not a great fit for the demands of living in space, however willing prisoners may be to go. I hope we can find a more humane way to deal with our troubled fellow humans than to send them on suicide missions.