9 ms·

I think the real problem is that you had expensive cars. No shit you save money when you take ubers rather than owning a BMW M3 and (what I assume) was a decked

by gormz 8y ago

I think the real problem is that you had expensive cars. No shit you save money when you take ubers rather than owning a BMW M3 and (what I assume) was a decked out wrangler. If you bought a sensible car, your monthly costs could be much lower.

CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
> If you bought a sensible car, your monthly costs could be much lower. $12,041 over 6 years is $2006 per year, which is about $167 per month. All of my friends pay about that much just for car insurance every month. Throw in a car payment ($200/mo. - $500/mo. depending on the terms of the lease), gas, and maintenance (regular oil changes, tire replacements, etc.) and you'll end up way north of $12,000 after 6 years.
- the_gastropod 8y ago
  > Throw in a car payment They said sensible car. A car you need a loan for is not a sensible car.
  - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
    1. The two-word phrase sensible car was not defined by the comment I replied to; it was left up to interpretation. 2. Even if I take your assumption as the other poster's definition of sensible and remove any car payment, gas + insurance + maintenance yields a 6 year cost above $12k. My point stands.
    - the_gastropod 8y ago
      > gas + insurance + maintenance yields a 6 year cost above $12k This will depend on the individual circumstances. Liability insurance is significantly cheaper than full coverage. Average annual liability insurance is ~$552/year [1]. Driving the ridiculous 12k miles per year that average americans drive, a Prius would burn roughly 226 gallons of gas. At today's price of gas ($2.94), that's $664/yr. At 6 years insurance and gas will run you $7,296. I'm very skeptical of depreciation + maintenance blowing $4,704 over 6 years on a Prius... [1] https://www.carinsurance.com/average-rates-by-age.aspx https://www.carinsurance.com/average-rates-by-age.aspx
      - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
        Hahaha, $552/year for car insurance in Florida? The high cost of car insurance, coupled with the low wages in this state, are a significant factor that kept a lot of my peers in poverty well out of high school. The usual story goes like this: - Reliant on a hand-me-down car to get to work. - Work barely pays for rent, car insurance, gas, and food. - Car needs maintenance but no money for that. The end result is predictable: A lot of Floridians work for just enough money to be able to get to work, and as soon as this equilibrium is shattered, our lives fall apart. Charitably, I think the lowest I've seen anyone's insurance payment in this state is $89/month, because they were over the age of 25 and their car fit the requirements for lower insurance rates nicely. They still had a car payment ($400/mo. IIRC) though.
        the_gastropod 8y ago
        > the lowest I've seen anyone's insurance payment in this state is $89/month [...] They still had a car payment ($400/mo. IIRC) though. Again: liability insurance is a different thing. When you don't own your car (aka when you take a car loan), you are required to have insurance that can cover the cost of the car. When you own your car, you only need to pay for liability insurance, which is much cheaper. Your story is all too common in the U.S. It's expensive being poor here. The frugal solution is to have money to buy a car outright. It's tough getting out from under that dilemma.
  - gormz 8y ago
    Yup. There are plenty of sensible options that you can buy outright. Plenty of japanese cars will last well over 200k miles. If you can't afford a new car, get a used one. There's a culture in the US that makes us way to comfortable taking out loans.
  - Driverswanted 8y ago
    Being as how you can finance a new car for 0% interest, why would you pay cash? Sounds like you're giving terrible advice.
    - gregimba 8y ago
      You do realize profit is built into a 0% loan right? Its essentially an upfront interest payment for the duration of the loan.
      - Driverswanted 8y ago
        What on earth do you mean. Have you ever bought a car? You negotiate the price you are willing to pay. The dealer has no idea if you are leasing, paying cash, or financing. The all-in price is either financed or leased at a specified interest rate. They do not "add in" an up front payment. That doesn't even make sense, and would be incredibly misleading. If we negotiate $25,000 for the car,and I finance at 0%, you are saying they up the price to $27,500 to "build in a profit"? Nonsense. The numbers are in front of you and you can do the calculations yourself with high school math. 0% is 0%. You are totally out of your element and shouldnt be providing financial advice. Maybe that's why the dealer rips you off.
        smogcutter 8y ago
        You're wrong. Cash back rebate offers usually don't apply to the 0% apr deal, so the amount financed will be higher. Which option is better depends on the size of the rebate, what interest rate you can get outside the low apr deal, and the amount financed. Edmunds has a calculator if you need help with the high school math: https://www.edmunds.com/calculators/incentives-rebates.html https://www.edmunds.com/calculators/incentives-rebates.html
        donarb 8y ago
        If the choice is between you getting a "sweet deal" or the dealer making a profit, you will lose every time. Rebates and magic 0% interest are designed to get you to sign on the dotted line without reading the fine print.
  - other_herbert 8y ago
    At least last year, "new car loans" had a really low rate, and I think as long as it's newer than 3 years old and less than 30k miles or something a used car still qualifies.. if you have money making more in interest than the loan percentage, you shouldn't pay cash (assuming you have greater than the financed amount earning interest)…
    - the_gastropod 8y ago
      Interest isn't the killer, it's the insurance. When you owe money on a car, you're typically required to hold full coverage insurance on the car. That is not cheap.
- NDizzle 8y ago
  North of $12,000 and you'll own a car. The no-car-movement is great for cities and people with lots of patience. You'll never, ever take Land Cruisers away from me.
  - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
    > The no-car-movement is great for cities and people with lots of patience. I don't own car (nor have any intention of doing so) due to being too blind to drive safely, but not blind enough for any sort of government assistance. (I'm not legally prevented from driving, I'm being considerate of the safety of others.)
  - saudioger 8y ago
    >The no-car-movement is great for cities and people with lots of patience. Unfortunately Uber is kind of undermining public transportation though. In my city transit ridership is down, which ultimately impacts funding. I can sit outside any sort of venue/party/bar and watch Ubers pull up by the dozen. 5 years ago most of those people would have been walking to public transit because cabs were more realistically priced (for the medallion owners at least, the drivers often got shafted there too). Uber trips often cost less than the price of simply stepping foot inside a taxi. I've talked to my neighbors (6 college students sharing a house), and they've literally never taken public transit since living in the city, and we're ~5 minutes from a major bus station and ~10 minutes from a subway station. I was flabbergasted. Of course, traffic is worse than ever (this is attributable to multiple factors not limited to Uber/Lyft).
    - krisdol 8y ago
      I can't stand what ubers and lyft do to congestion. The drivers have no incentive to stop in marked areas or even pull over to the side when picking up/dropping off. Most of our busier two-lane streets are now 1-lane congested behemoths thanks to ride "sharing". It does get me on the bike more though. There aren't enough cops to enforce or care about the problem, and unlike some European countries, the culture in the US around citizens reporting traffic violations is nearly non-existent, so everyone gets away with it.
  - 8y ago
- sokoloff 8y ago
  You have multiple friends paying $2K/yr for car insurance? Are they amateur demolition derby drivers? I pay just over half of that for three cars and two adult drivers. (and in Massachusetts, which does not have a fully open/competitive insurance market.)
  - danvasquez29 8y ago
    different states' laws can have a major impact. I have no experience with insurance in MA, but in Michigan 2k/yr per car would be considered fairly cheap. My insurance is routinely near the cost of the car payment itself, and I have a good record and multi-product discounts with my provider. We definitely have a problem here in this state though.
  - patcheudor 8y ago
    Auto insurance rates are greatly variable throughout the US and many people cary more than state minimums. Near $200/mo., is pretty normal in California. My auto insurance, with a perfect record is $3100/yr with a $5 million umbrella for three cars and two adult drivers in Idaho.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      Agreed on the state minimums, which are a joke ($20K and $40K I think here). We carry many multiples of the state minimum, which was needed to secure an umbrella policy for the excess. That doesn't include the umbrella, which we have in place mostly for other reasons (and is cheap).
    - lscharen 8y ago
      I'll throw a data point in here: Three vehicles (2014, 2009, 2006), no accidents, rural Midwest. ~$2,000/yr for insurance with standard 100/300/100 coverage.
    - notyourwork 8y ago
      I just renewed my insurance in SF for $555/6 months. I have progressive, high deductible but coverage for me, other driver and all that (100/300/100).
- gormz 8y ago
  Okay, but you can expect a car to last upwards of 10 and you own it. If you decide you want to drive down the coast, you can do just that. I think services like this are way overhyped and wouldn't exist if they saved you money.
  - zilian 8y ago
    Well they actually operate at a loss, so it wouldn't be so surprising if you save money using uber instead of owning a car. Magic VC money subsidize your trips ;)
    - SpecialistEMT 8y ago
      this myth again. uber makes money on every ride. they operate at a loss annually because they invest everything in expanding to avoid paying taxes - like most companies do.
      - zilian 8y ago
        It's quite true that they make money on every ride - what I meant is that we get "cheap" rides while they try to win a "winner-takes-all" monopoly, because they can afford to "invest" in expanding, with heavy losses (4.5B in 2017). It's also true that it's not sure they will ever reach profitability. Therefore, my comment.
- cableshaft 8y ago
  I have a license and a car, my girlfriend doesn't. My girlfriend takes an Uber home from work every day right now (I drop her off in the morning then head to work. I'm still at work when she gets off work). It costs her an average of $25 per trip. 25 * 5 days a week * 4 weeks per month = $500/month in expenses. That's for a single 20 minute Uber (usually Lyft now, it's been cheaper) a day, that's it. I'm surprised the OP can get away with $167 in Uber expenses doing without two cars as the OP suggests. It's about 40 extra miles I drive a day for her also, since her work is in the opposite direction of mine, so tack on the extra maintenance required for 800 miles per month on my car (hasn't been too much yet, but the car is starting to get old... let's say $40/month ), along with that much in gas (right now about $104 a month), and our total cost per month for her to go without a car is $644 a month. My car payment is about $300 a month, so let's assume she can find the same or even less in a lease, especially since her credit is better, and I already estimated the fuel and maintenance as $140, but it'd transfer over to her paying it. Then she'd probably have to pay about $100 a month for car insurance (I pay less, but she'd be a new driver), and therefore our total costs for her to drive are probably around $540 a month, or about $100 a month cheaper. To me that's a pretty slim margin. The main reason I wouldn't mind her starting to drive is it wouldn't be necessary to take her to certain places and save me an hour out of the day every day, not due to savings. Which I always assumed we would save a lot of money if she drove, until I did the math. Also I live in the suburbs so if neither of us had cars our Uber expenses would be like $2006 a month, not per year, based on how much we drive currently. But it does look like having only 1 car in the household might be feasible, instead of the assumed 1 car per individual, like was the default in the previous generation.
Infernal 8y ago
To help quantify this a bit - in 2008 I bought a brand new Honda Fit (cash) for about $17k. Has 120k miles on it now, very low maintenance, few repairs, definitely a budget/economy car. Over 10 years, another $600ish a year in gas (lifetime average of 35mpg), 4 sets of ~$400 apiece tires, ~$80 in oil changes a year, another ~$700/yr in insurance, looks like a TCO of $32k (and I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out). $266/mo is quite a bit more than what this person has spent on Uber. The big difference is this person is only using ~114 rides/year, whereas just commuting to work I use my car for ~400 rides/year. Add in one out and back weekend trip (ignoring shopping trips through the week etc.) and we're up to 500 rides/year. If my average ride cost were the same as this person ($17.50/ride) I'd be looking at over $700/mo.
- infinitone 8y ago
  You paid $400/tire? isn't that kind of expensive for a honda fit?
  - psychometry 8y ago
    Pretty sure that's 400/set and you need to buy a new set every few years.
    - Infernal 8y ago
      Ah, good point. I was referring to about $400 per set of tires including installation. My original post was unclear in that regard.
- jedberg 8y ago
  You're right that it's way cheaper, but you did forget to account for the opportunity cost of the $17K up front (about $1700 in interest in a simple savings account, but depending on how you invested it, you may have done better).
  - Retric 8y ago
    The fit is probably worth more than 1700$ right now. You could also have invested the savings to make even more money. Still, the goal is a ballpark not an exact number and that's plenty to say Uber would have been a poor fit.
lttlrck 8y ago
Besides that it could be argued that buying an M3 is not an economic purchase, it’s an emotional one. Presumably you go into it knowing it’ll have higher than average TCO, that it’s not designed as a commuter vehicle, and you accept the cost because you are a car enthusiast - and taking Uber ain’t your bag. It’s an odd reference for the comparison.
nealmueller 8y ago
Hi, I'm Neal, author of this analysis. Yes, you nailed it. I was just thinking today about what older car (2014 or earlier) I could buy for $10,000 or less that had adaptive cruise control and lane assist. That would allow me to disengage mentally a little from driving without suffering depreciation. Is there a way to search for what's the oldest car (e.g. Civic) that has these features?
- burkemw3 8y ago
  Please don't disengage mentally from driving. If you think you need to do that, take a break instead.
  - jlarocco 8y ago
    Very much this. Disengaging mentally from driving is a great way to "accidentally" kill somebody.
  - spookthesunset 8y ago
    Don't knock adaptive cruise control until you try it. It is significantly better than plain-vanilla cruise control. I've found that when I use it, I tend to stop caring about if I'm driving "too slow" -- it makes me a less aggressive driver.
    - Someone1234 8y ago
      My current car has it. The person you're replying to is still correct, if you need to "disengage from driving" then pull over and take a break. Adaptive cruise control makes driving less stressful/more pleasant but you still have to be mentally there. No system is full proof, and certainly not at this stage.
- gormz 8y ago
  Personally, I have no idea what cars have these kind of features. I know that civics had these features as of lately. I like to have as little technology in my vehicle as possible. I think disengaging in driving is very dangerous. I am not happy with the trend as I love riding motorcycles, but don't want my family publicly shamed by Tesla when one of their camera's overlooks me and kills my ass.
fossuser 8y ago
Especially when you consider the option (in California) of a Fiat 500e. It'e electric, ~90/month to lease and anywhere from negative $1000 down (when taking into account the CA $2500 incentive you get paid to take it) up to 1500 down. You can even find pretty good lease deals on the more expensive BMW i3 - used electrics are pretty undervalued at the moment.

by gormz 8y ago

CiPHPerCoder 8y ago

> If you bought a sensible car, your monthly costs could be much lower. $12,041 over 6 years is $2006 per year, which is about $167 per month. All of my friends pay about that much just for car insurance every month. Throw in a car payment ($200/mo. - $500/mo. depending on the terms of the lease), gas, and maintenance (regular oil changes, tire replacements, etc.) and you'll end up way north of $12,000 after 6 years.

the_gastropod 8y ago
> Throw in a car payment They said sensible car. A car you need a loan for is not a sensible car.
- CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
  1. The two-word phrase sensible car was not defined by the comment I replied to; it was left up to interpretation. 2. Even if I take your assumption as the other poster's definition of sensible and remove any car payment, gas + insurance + maintenance yields a 6 year cost above $12k. My point stands.
  - the_gastropod 8y ago
    > gas + insurance + maintenance yields a 6 year cost above $12k This will depend on the individual circumstances. Liability insurance is significantly cheaper than full coverage. Average annual liability insurance is ~$552/year [1]. Driving the ridiculous 12k miles per year that average americans drive, a Prius would burn roughly 226 gallons of gas. At today's price of gas ($2.94), that's $664/yr. At 6 years insurance and gas will run you $7,296. I'm very skeptical of depreciation + maintenance blowing $4,704 over 6 years on a Prius... [1] https://www.carinsurance.com/average-rates-by-age.aspx https://www.carinsurance.com/average-rates-by-age.aspx
    - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
      Hahaha, $552/year for car insurance in Florida? The high cost of car insurance, coupled with the low wages in this state, are a significant factor that kept a lot of my peers in poverty well out of high school. The usual story goes like this: - Reliant on a hand-me-down car to get to work. - Work barely pays for rent, car insurance, gas, and food. - Car needs maintenance but no money for that. The end result is predictable: A lot of Floridians work for just enough money to be able to get to work, and as soon as this equilibrium is shattered, our lives fall apart. Charitably, I think the lowest I've seen anyone's insurance payment in this state is $89/month, because they were over the age of 25 and their car fit the requirements for lower insurance rates nicely. They still had a car payment ($400/mo. IIRC) though.
      - the_gastropod 8y ago
        > the lowest I've seen anyone's insurance payment in this state is $89/month [...] They still had a car payment ($400/mo. IIRC) though. Again: liability insurance is a different thing. When you don't own your car (aka when you take a car loan), you are required to have insurance that can cover the cost of the car. When you own your car, you only need to pay for liability insurance, which is much cheaper. Your story is all too common in the U.S. It's expensive being poor here. The frugal solution is to have money to buy a car outright. It's tough getting out from under that dilemma.
- gormz 8y ago
  Yup. There are plenty of sensible options that you can buy outright. Plenty of japanese cars will last well over 200k miles. If you can't afford a new car, get a used one. There's a culture in the US that makes us way to comfortable taking out loans.
- Driverswanted 8y ago
  Being as how you can finance a new car for 0% interest, why would you pay cash? Sounds like you're giving terrible advice.
  - gregimba 8y ago
    You do realize profit is built into a 0% loan right? Its essentially an upfront interest payment for the duration of the loan.
    - Driverswanted 8y ago
      What on earth do you mean. Have you ever bought a car? You negotiate the price you are willing to pay. The dealer has no idea if you are leasing, paying cash, or financing. The all-in price is either financed or leased at a specified interest rate. They do not "add in" an up front payment. That doesn't even make sense, and would be incredibly misleading. If we negotiate $25,000 for the car,and I finance at 0%, you are saying they up the price to $27,500 to "build in a profit"? Nonsense. The numbers are in front of you and you can do the calculations yourself with high school math. 0% is 0%. You are totally out of your element and shouldnt be providing financial advice. Maybe that's why the dealer rips you off.
      - smogcutter 8y ago
        You're wrong. Cash back rebate offers usually don't apply to the 0% apr deal, so the amount financed will be higher. Which option is better depends on the size of the rebate, what interest rate you can get outside the low apr deal, and the amount financed. Edmunds has a calculator if you need help with the high school math: https://www.edmunds.com/calculators/incentives-rebates.html https://www.edmunds.com/calculators/incentives-rebates.html
      - donarb 8y ago
        If the choice is between you getting a "sweet deal" or the dealer making a profit, you will lose every time. Rebates and magic 0% interest are designed to get you to sign on the dotted line without reading the fine print.
- other_herbert 8y ago
  At least last year, "new car loans" had a really low rate, and I think as long as it's newer than 3 years old and less than 30k miles or something a used car still qualifies.. if you have money making more in interest than the loan percentage, you shouldn't pay cash (assuming you have greater than the financed amount earning interest)…
  - the_gastropod 8y ago
    Interest isn't the killer, it's the insurance. When you owe money on a car, you're typically required to hold full coverage insurance on the car. That is not cheap.
NDizzle 8y ago
North of $12,000 and you'll own a car. The no-car-movement is great for cities and people with lots of patience. You'll never, ever take Land Cruisers away from me.
- CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
  > The no-car-movement is great for cities and people with lots of patience. I don't own car (nor have any intention of doing so) due to being too blind to drive safely, but not blind enough for any sort of government assistance. (I'm not legally prevented from driving, I'm being considerate of the safety of others.)
- saudioger 8y ago
  >The no-car-movement is great for cities and people with lots of patience. Unfortunately Uber is kind of undermining public transportation though. In my city transit ridership is down, which ultimately impacts funding. I can sit outside any sort of venue/party/bar and watch Ubers pull up by the dozen. 5 years ago most of those people would have been walking to public transit because cabs were more realistically priced (for the medallion owners at least, the drivers often got shafted there too). Uber trips often cost less than the price of simply stepping foot inside a taxi. I've talked to my neighbors (6 college students sharing a house), and they've literally never taken public transit since living in the city, and we're ~5 minutes from a major bus station and ~10 minutes from a subway station. I was flabbergasted. Of course, traffic is worse than ever (this is attributable to multiple factors not limited to Uber/Lyft).
  - krisdol 8y ago
    I can't stand what ubers and lyft do to congestion. The drivers have no incentive to stop in marked areas or even pull over to the side when picking up/dropping off. Most of our busier two-lane streets are now 1-lane congested behemoths thanks to ride "sharing". It does get me on the bike more though. There aren't enough cops to enforce or care about the problem, and unlike some European countries, the culture in the US around citizens reporting traffic violations is nearly non-existent, so everyone gets away with it.
- 8y ago
sokoloff 8y ago
You have multiple friends paying $2K/yr for car insurance? Are they amateur demolition derby drivers? I pay just over half of that for three cars and two adult drivers. (and in Massachusetts, which does not have a fully open/competitive insurance market.)
- danvasquez29 8y ago
  different states' laws can have a major impact. I have no experience with insurance in MA, but in Michigan 2k/yr per car would be considered fairly cheap. My insurance is routinely near the cost of the car payment itself, and I have a good record and multi-product discounts with my provider. We definitely have a problem here in this state though.
- patcheudor 8y ago
  Auto insurance rates are greatly variable throughout the US and many people cary more than state minimums. Near $200/mo., is pretty normal in California. My auto insurance, with a perfect record is $3100/yr with a $5 million umbrella for three cars and two adult drivers in Idaho.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    Agreed on the state minimums, which are a joke ($20K and $40K I think here). We carry many multiples of the state minimum, which was needed to secure an umbrella policy for the excess. That doesn't include the umbrella, which we have in place mostly for other reasons (and is cheap).
  - lscharen 8y ago
    I'll throw a data point in here: Three vehicles (2014, 2009, 2006), no accidents, rural Midwest. ~$2,000/yr for insurance with standard 100/300/100 coverage.
  - notyourwork 8y ago
    I just renewed my insurance in SF for $555/6 months. I have progressive, high deductible but coverage for me, other driver and all that (100/300/100).
gormz 8y ago
Okay, but you can expect a car to last upwards of 10 and you own it. If you decide you want to drive down the coast, you can do just that. I think services like this are way overhyped and wouldn't exist if they saved you money.
- zilian 8y ago
  Well they actually operate at a loss, so it wouldn't be so surprising if you save money using uber instead of owning a car. Magic VC money subsidize your trips ;)
  - SpecialistEMT 8y ago
    this myth again. uber makes money on every ride. they operate at a loss annually because they invest everything in expanding to avoid paying taxes - like most companies do.
    - zilian 8y ago
      It's quite true that they make money on every ride - what I meant is that we get "cheap" rides while they try to win a "winner-takes-all" monopoly, because they can afford to "invest" in expanding, with heavy losses (4.5B in 2017). It's also true that it's not sure they will ever reach profitability. Therefore, my comment.
cableshaft 8y ago
I have a license and a car, my girlfriend doesn't. My girlfriend takes an Uber home from work every day right now (I drop her off in the morning then head to work. I'm still at work when she gets off work). It costs her an average of $25 per trip. 25 * 5 days a week * 4 weeks per month = $500/month in expenses. That's for a single 20 minute Uber (usually Lyft now, it's been cheaper) a day, that's it. I'm surprised the OP can get away with $167 in Uber expenses doing without two cars as the OP suggests. It's about 40 extra miles I drive a day for her also, since her work is in the opposite direction of mine, so tack on the extra maintenance required for 800 miles per month on my car (hasn't been too much yet, but the car is starting to get old... let's say $40/month ), along with that much in gas (right now about $104 a month), and our total cost per month for her to go without a car is $644 a month. My car payment is about $300 a month, so let's assume she can find the same or even less in a lease, especially since her credit is better, and I already estimated the fuel and maintenance as $140, but it'd transfer over to her paying it. Then she'd probably have to pay about $100 a month for car insurance (I pay less, but she'd be a new driver), and therefore our total costs for her to drive are probably around $540 a month, or about $100 a month cheaper. To me that's a pretty slim margin. The main reason I wouldn't mind her starting to drive is it wouldn't be necessary to take her to certain places and save me an hour out of the day every day, not due to savings. Which I always assumed we would save a lot of money if she drove, until I did the math. Also I live in the suburbs so if neither of us had cars our Uber expenses would be like $2006 a month, not per year, based on how much we drive currently. But it does look like having only 1 car in the household might be feasible, instead of the assumed 1 car per individual, like was the default in the previous generation.

Infernal 8y ago

To help quantify this a bit - in 2008 I bought a brand new Honda Fit (cash) for about $17k. Has 120k miles on it now, very low maintenance, few repairs, definitely a budget/economy car. Over 10 years, another $600ish a year in gas (lifetime average of 35mpg), 4 sets of ~$400 apiece tires, ~$80 in oil changes a year, another ~$700/yr in insurance, looks like a TCO of $32k (and I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out). $266/mo is quite a bit more than what this person has spent on Uber. The big difference is this person is only using ~114 rides/year, whereas just commuting to work I use my car for ~400 rides/year. Add in one out and back weekend trip (ignoring shopping trips through the week etc.) and we're up to 500 rides/year. If my average ride cost were the same as this person ($17.50/ride) I'd be looking at over $700/mo.

infinitone 8y ago
You paid $400/tire? isn't that kind of expensive for a honda fit?
- psychometry 8y ago
  Pretty sure that's 400/set and you need to buy a new set every few years.
  - Infernal 8y ago
    Ah, good point. I was referring to about $400 per set of tires including installation. My original post was unclear in that regard.
jedberg 8y ago
You're right that it's way cheaper, but you did forget to account for the opportunity cost of the $17K up front (about $1700 in interest in a simple savings account, but depending on how you invested it, you may have done better).
- Retric 8y ago
  The fit is probably worth more than 1700$ right now. You could also have invested the savings to make even more money. Still, the goal is a ballpark not an exact number and that's plenty to say Uber would have been a poor fit.

lttlrck 8y ago

Besides that it could be argued that buying an M3 is not an economic purchase, it’s an emotional one. Presumably you go into it knowing it’ll have higher than average TCO, that it’s not designed as a commuter vehicle, and you accept the cost because you are a car enthusiast - and taking Uber ain’t your bag. It’s an odd reference for the comparison.

nealmueller 8y ago

Hi, I'm Neal, author of this analysis. Yes, you nailed it. I was just thinking today about what older car (2014 or earlier) I could buy for $10,000 or less that had adaptive cruise control and lane assist. That would allow me to disengage mentally a little from driving without suffering depreciation. Is there a way to search for what's the oldest car (e.g. Civic) that has these features?

burkemw3 8y ago
Please don't disengage mentally from driving. If you think you need to do that, take a break instead.
- jlarocco 8y ago
  Very much this. Disengaging mentally from driving is a great way to "accidentally" kill somebody.
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  Don't knock adaptive cruise control until you try it. It is significantly better than plain-vanilla cruise control. I've found that when I use it, I tend to stop caring about if I'm driving "too slow" -- it makes me a less aggressive driver.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    My current car has it. The person you're replying to is still correct, if you need to "disengage from driving" then pull over and take a break. Adaptive cruise control makes driving less stressful/more pleasant but you still have to be mentally there. No system is full proof, and certainly not at this stage.
gormz 8y ago
Personally, I have no idea what cars have these kind of features. I know that civics had these features as of lately. I like to have as little technology in my vehicle as possible. I think disengaging in driving is very dangerous. I am not happy with the trend as I love riding motorcycles, but don't want my family publicly shamed by Tesla when one of their camera's overlooks me and kills my ass.

fossuser 8y ago

Especially when you consider the option (in California) of a Fiat 500e. It'e electric, ~90/month to lease and anywhere from negative $1000 down (when taking into account the CA $2500 incentive you get paid to take it) up to 1500 down. You can even find pretty good lease deals on the more expensive BMW i3 - used electrics are pretty undervalued at the moment.