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Compare this to Philadelphia, where a monthly Septa pass (that's bus+trolley+subway) is $96. That's a savings of $856/year over Uber. I have been carless for th

Compare this to Philadelphia, where a monthly Septa pass (that's bus+trolley+subway) is $96. That's a savings of $856/year over Uber. I have been carless for three years and my savings account is very happy now. Regional Rail passes are $105, so you don't have to live in the city, either.

2RTZZSro 8y ago
The additional cost is for door-to-door service. Not everyone in the Philly metro area is within walking distance to a Septa location, nor do people want to spend the additional time to arrive at a Septa location and then ride to work.
sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago
Big supporter of public transit, but this is apples to oranges. Nine times out of ten, the Uber is going to get you where you want to go a lot faster, unless embarkation and destination are both on the same public transit line.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  I suppose it varies by city, but to me we're not talking about comparing apples to oranges. We're talking about exchanging apples and oranges for bananas, just in different ratios. I lived carfree in Milwaukee for a while (picking that as an example of a city that only has bus service), and the time savings really didn't seem that bad once I got used to it. A trip to one of the shopping malls on my side of town was about the worst-case scenario, and there it typically took ~40m on the bus, versus ~20m by car. I like reading and I had a Nintendo DS at the time, so that ~20m difference was spent doing what I would have probably done with the extra time, anyway. I was just doing it without a cat in my lap. An easy trade, I thought, considering that I was typically spending no more than $10 a week on bus fare. Often more like $0, especially in the summer, when it was more fun to get around by bike. Owning a car or using a taxi service for my main way of getting around would have cost thousands per month. That's quite a few fewer apples, and not a whole lot more oranges.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  The author of the linked analysis specifically says they do not mind trips taking longer (Uber Pool is not nearly as fast as Uber X) considering how much money they are saving. I am doing the same comparison: public transit takes longer than Uber Pool, but you save something like 50%. So I think this is apples to apples.
- solidr53 8y ago
  True, that 1 in 10 where you are faster is in cities like New York or Tokyo. And its not "a little faster".
- iambateman 8y ago
  And there are also thousands of metro areas for which public transport isn’t viable for some reason or another. We technically have a bus system, but it’s a joke.
magicbuzz 8y ago
Compare this to free public transit in some European cities
- xienze 8y ago
  It’s not free though. So figure out how much of your tax goes towards public transportation and _then_ compare.
  - cletus 8y ago
    It's nothing out of pocket though. And that's the point. Also your argument cuts both ways. The US as a whole subsidizes car ownership to a huge degree. Do you want to factor that in too?
    - xienze 8y ago
      > It's nothing out of pocket though. And that's the point. No wonder politicians can so easily manipulate the public. “I don’t pay money at the time the service is rendered, therefore it’s free!” It is coming out of your pocket, just at a different time. > The US as a whole subsidizes car ownership to a huge degree. Are you making hand wavy arguments about wars for oil or something? Last I checked roads are paid for by various taxes, including gas tax, which I pay.
      - cma 8y ago
        How are oil wars hand wavy?
        xienze 8y ago
        Because it’s a nonsensical argument that first and foremost presumed the US actually engages in wars for the purpose of securing oil.
        cma 8y ago
collinf 8y ago
I find it hard to believe you _only_ use Septa to get around Philadelphia. I have the regional rail pass for my commute as well and Philadelphia's public transportation system is not great for getting anywhere in the city. I uber all the time to get around Philadelphia to supplement my Septa pass. It still definitely beats a car payment, insurance and the hellhole of parking though. At least compared to NYC, where I could hop on the subway to anywhere in the boroughs.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  I take about one round-trip Lyft/Uber every two weeks (I don't go out much) and I walk around my neighborhood for anything I need. The only place I go that's inconvenient to use Septa is the southeast industrial area with all the box stores (ikea/walmart/home depot/big movie theater).
WhompingWindows 8y ago
In my city/state, a bus pass would cost you $70 and would be very, very slow in comparison to Uber. It would also entail waiting feet from auto emissions for 15+ minutes while you await a bus which is never on time. Then, you ride the bus itself, it's old and there are bizarre people on there, whereas in the Uber, you get to be by yourself in a back seat. To me, the quality of the ride provided is too slow and too uncomfortable for the slight savings.
halayli 8y ago
What would your time savings account look like comparing the 2?
ashelmire 8y ago
Hi fellow Philadelphian! I too tend to ride septa or bike (whenever it's not freezing or raining) to work, only using my car a few times a month for shopping or for road trips in the summers / occasional visits to family in nearby states. The car ends up costing me a little under 3k per year in maintenance, gas, and insurance. Yearning to ditch it, but I do like the freedom to go on these trips (I'm usually bringing lots of gear and going far from population centers for camping).
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  I recommend weekend car rentals. If each trip cost you $145, you could take 20 trips before it would equal the cost of your car's maintenance/gas/insurance. Right now a 2-day weekend Hertz rental in Conshohocken is $60 including taxes and fees (but not insurance). Definitely cheaper than car-sharing, where you pay more to use it for less time. A good credit card will cover Collision Damage (though you may need to shove a copy of the card's rental coverage in the face of the rental sales associate as they may try to claim it isn't covered). You can pay the minimum liability insurance, or you can get a "non-owner liability insurance policy" which will cover you for the year, saving you money if you rent frequently. Personal accident insurance is optional and may be covered by your health insurance.
nealmueller 8y ago
Hi, I'm Neal. Author of this analysis. You're right about public transport. I would take public transport more if my hotspot worked underground and if it was reliably less disruptive (people bump too much to work with laptop open in socially acceptable way). This sounds strange, but lately I've enjoy taking these silly scooters around town and have been using them more than public transport or uber (in the city). Not sure if they've reached Philadelphia yet, but they are all the rage here in San Francisco.

2RTZZSro 8y ago

The additional cost is for door-to-door service. Not everyone in the Philly metro area is within walking distance to a Septa location, nor do people want to spend the additional time to arrive at a Septa location and then ride to work.

sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago

Big supporter of public transit, but this is apples to oranges. Nine times out of ten, the Uber is going to get you where you want to go a lot faster, unless embarkation and destination are both on the same public transit line.

bunderbunder 8y ago
I suppose it varies by city, but to me we're not talking about comparing apples to oranges. We're talking about exchanging apples and oranges for bananas, just in different ratios. I lived carfree in Milwaukee for a while (picking that as an example of a city that only has bus service), and the time savings really didn't seem that bad once I got used to it. A trip to one of the shopping malls on my side of town was about the worst-case scenario, and there it typically took ~40m on the bus, versus ~20m by car. I like reading and I had a Nintendo DS at the time, so that ~20m difference was spent doing what I would have probably done with the extra time, anyway. I was just doing it without a cat in my lap. An easy trade, I thought, considering that I was typically spending no more than $10 a week on bus fare. Often more like $0, especially in the summer, when it was more fun to get around by bike. Owning a car or using a taxi service for my main way of getting around would have cost thousands per month. That's quite a few fewer apples, and not a whole lot more oranges.
peterwwillis 8y ago
The author of the linked analysis specifically says they do not mind trips taking longer (Uber Pool is not nearly as fast as Uber X) considering how much money they are saving. I am doing the same comparison: public transit takes longer than Uber Pool, but you save something like 50%. So I think this is apples to apples.
solidr53 8y ago
True, that 1 in 10 where you are faster is in cities like New York or Tokyo. And its not "a little faster".
iambateman 8y ago
And there are also thousands of metro areas for which public transport isn’t viable for some reason or another. We technically have a bus system, but it’s a joke.

magicbuzz 8y ago

Compare this to free public transit in some European cities

xienze 8y ago
It’s not free though. So figure out how much of your tax goes towards public transportation and _then_ compare.
- cletus 8y ago
  It's nothing out of pocket though. And that's the point. Also your argument cuts both ways. The US as a whole subsidizes car ownership to a huge degree. Do you want to factor that in too?
  - xienze 8y ago
    > It's nothing out of pocket though. And that's the point. No wonder politicians can so easily manipulate the public. “I don’t pay money at the time the service is rendered, therefore it’s free!” It is coming out of your pocket, just at a different time. > The US as a whole subsidizes car ownership to a huge degree. Are you making hand wavy arguments about wars for oil or something? Last I checked roads are paid for by various taxes, including gas tax, which I pay.
    - cma 8y ago
      How are oil wars hand wavy?
      - xienze 8y ago
        Because it’s a nonsensical argument that first and foremost presumed the US actually engages in wars for the purpose of securing oil.
        cma 8y ago

collinf 8y ago

I find it hard to believe you _only_ use Septa to get around Philadelphia. I have the regional rail pass for my commute as well and Philadelphia's public transportation system is not great for getting anywhere in the city. I uber all the time to get around Philadelphia to supplement my Septa pass. It still definitely beats a car payment, insurance and the hellhole of parking though. At least compared to NYC, where I could hop on the subway to anywhere in the boroughs.

peterwwillis 8y ago
I take about one round-trip Lyft/Uber every two weeks (I don't go out much) and I walk around my neighborhood for anything I need. The only place I go that's inconvenient to use Septa is the southeast industrial area with all the box stores (ikea/walmart/home depot/big movie theater).

WhompingWindows 8y ago

In my city/state, a bus pass would cost you $70 and would be very, very slow in comparison to Uber. It would also entail waiting feet from auto emissions for 15+ minutes while you await a bus which is never on time. Then, you ride the bus itself, it's old and there are bizarre people on there, whereas in the Uber, you get to be by yourself in a back seat. To me, the quality of the ride provided is too slow and too uncomfortable for the slight savings.

halayli 8y ago

What would your time savings account look like comparing the 2?

ashelmire 8y ago

Hi fellow Philadelphian! I too tend to ride septa or bike (whenever it's not freezing or raining) to work, only using my car a few times a month for shopping or for road trips in the summers / occasional visits to family in nearby states. The car ends up costing me a little under 3k per year in maintenance, gas, and insurance. Yearning to ditch it, but I do like the freedom to go on these trips (I'm usually bringing lots of gear and going far from population centers for camping).

peterwwillis 8y ago
I recommend weekend car rentals. If each trip cost you $145, you could take 20 trips before it would equal the cost of your car's maintenance/gas/insurance. Right now a 2-day weekend Hertz rental in Conshohocken is $60 including taxes and fees (but not insurance). Definitely cheaper than car-sharing, where you pay more to use it for less time. A good credit card will cover Collision Damage (though you may need to shove a copy of the card's rental coverage in the face of the rental sales associate as they may try to claim it isn't covered). You can pay the minimum liability insurance, or you can get a "non-owner liability insurance policy" which will cover you for the year, saving you money if you rent frequently. Personal accident insurance is optional and may be covered by your health insurance.

nealmueller 8y ago

Hi, I'm Neal. Author of this analysis. You're right about public transport. I would take public transport more if my hotspot worked underground and if it was reliably less disruptive (people bump too much to work with laptop open in socially acceptable way). This sounds strange, but lately I've enjoy taking these silly scooters around town and have been using them more than public transport or uber (in the city). Not sure if they've reached Philadelphia yet, but they are all the rage here in San Francisco.