4 ms·

> Any other ethnic group would be up in arms That is because the other ethnic groups are not the dominant ones in society, and are typically disadvantaged on t

> Any other ethnic group would be up in arms That is because the other ethnic groups are not the dominant ones in society, and are typically disadvantaged on the whole because of their race. My personal view as a White person is that I have enough advantages by my White male-ness that I do not need to demand more, or do anything to offset whatever minor inconveniences might arise from the same. Doing so would seem petty to me if I walked in another man's shoes. Is this racist? Yes, I suppose. White privilege is real, though. A recognition of this fact requires some ability to discriminate between race when observing the state of society, so perhaps "racist" should not be the bad word. Instead, "racial oppressivism" might be a better thing to demonize.

lionhearted 16y ago
Edit: Obviously this argument isn't going to get resolved and it's unlikely anyone's mind will be changed. I'll bow out here, leaving my opinion that his conduct is hateful and inappropriate, and my opinion is if you're Caucasian you shouldn't have to accept that passively. Others may have other opinons or think it's okay - if so, we'll agree to disagree.
- houseabsolute 16y ago
  > That's not petty either. I don't really expect you to see it any other way. You too are part of the advantaged White race, and it's far easier to turn a blind eye to the advantages you receive over Black or Latino people than to recognize them and deal with the fact. Of course, you may actually recognize those advantages and just choose to deal with them differently than I do. I also see nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to say that all White people should behave the same as I do. I'm just offering up one possible reason why some do. > . . . upper middle class sanctimonious bullshit. Not necessary.
  - alextingle 16y ago
    Upvote this comment!! Those of you who are downvoting it should be ashamed of yourselves. If you disagree, you should explain why, not use your privileged position to censor.
    - mchouza 16y ago
      Downvoting is downvoting, it's not censorship.
jasonjei 16y ago
I think what houseabsolute is saying has real validity. As a Chinese American, I've been teased at school for having a last name like "Hung," for speaking a language other than English. We haven't reached a world blind to color, and the faction on HN has a much better understanding of different cultures, skin colors, etc. than the average white American, especially of those in the South. It's a bit of a catch-22 situation. People make generalizations, because it's a very human thing to do; when we write code, we make generalizations when developing our algorithms. And the reason that the White group is at times marginalized is because a large percentage of that group still has a very poor understanding or acceptance of other races. If you go down to Atlanta, Georgia, you will see two worlds: one white (or honorary white, if you're Chinese, for instance), and one non-white. While it's of course in accurate to say that all people in the White subgroup are like this, a significant number have triggered a Bayesian rule that generalizations about White group are made, and the generalizations are usually made about their lack of sensitivity to non-White culture. And there is still hate. My girlfriend, for instance, is Japanese. When she was at UNC Chapel Hill, however, someone pooped in her dorm room and wrote, "Get out you dirty Jap!"
- ju2tin 16y ago
  Kids tease other kids about ANYTHING. If it weren't about your name, it would be something else. Doesn't mean white society is conspiring to keep Chinese people down. And that UNC Chapel Hill thing is just disgusting. Not sure someone who would do something like that is a good representative of the attitudes of white people in general.
  - _politicalist 16y ago
    If you read again, the person you're responding to mentioned being "honorary white". The notion of US whiteness evolves; take for example 19th century racism against the Irish. Blacks were called the "smoked Irish," and the Irish were "niggers turned inside-out". Now of course, Irish-Americans are just normal privileged white people, while African-Americans... well, they're obviously not doing as well. They're heavily imprisoned by the country with the world's highest jail rate.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
What are the advantages you receive due to white male-ness? (Note: I'm asking about advantages to an individual, not statistical advantages to a group. )
- Qz 16y ago
  Less likely to be stopped by police is just one.
- poppysan 16y ago
  -No imbred fear of inferiority. -Acceptance all across the nation if not the globe. -Inspirational historical role models that you can relate to taught by default(save for february...lol) -Less chance of long-term jail sentencing for proportional crimes -etc... the list can go on. This is not to say that you should feel bad for having a slight advantage, but not to recognize it can be confusing to those who have lived with the disadvantages.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Interesting - at least two of the disadvantages are entirely self inflicted (inbred fear of inferiority, unwillingness to be inspired by people of a different race). I'd be curious to see numbers for the jail sentencing claim. It sounds plausible, but numbers would be nice.
    - houseabsolute 16y ago
      Only in the sense that any psychological issue stemming from abuse is self-inflicted.
Untitled 16y ago
The white upper middle class are always doing fairly well. Yet poor whites are the ones that are double screwed. They are discriminated against in many countries ("black economic empowerment") and they are loathed by upper middle class white people. A white person with the same economic situation as a black person is screwed. So, poor whites became the punching bag of society. By upper middle class who dislike them (and like someone to pay for their sins) and disliked by black people. Here is a solution: How about removing all legal economic disadvantages from poor white people? (e.g. they are not viewed as "white" on application forms for employment equity purposes), and applying it super hard for the white upper-middle class?
- poppysan 16y ago
  "A white person with the same economic situation as a black person is screwed." Can come off a bit wrong as well... I think you mean an extremely impoverished white person is worse off than an extremely impoverished black person. Because all blacks aren't poor..(I know you didnt mean this... but it can be read that way) My stance is the opposite, as the white person in the extreme situation has more work opportunities, as well as the added benefit of not always being feared by society as the minority in the extreme situation can be.

lionhearted 16y ago

Edit: Obviously this argument isn't going to get resolved and it's unlikely anyone's mind will be changed. I'll bow out here, leaving my opinion that his conduct is hateful and inappropriate, and my opinion is if you're Caucasian you shouldn't have to accept that passively. Others may have other opinons or think it's okay - if so, we'll agree to disagree.

houseabsolute 16y ago
> That's not petty either. I don't really expect you to see it any other way. You too are part of the advantaged White race, and it's far easier to turn a blind eye to the advantages you receive over Black or Latino people than to recognize them and deal with the fact. Of course, you may actually recognize those advantages and just choose to deal with them differently than I do. I also see nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to say that all White people should behave the same as I do. I'm just offering up one possible reason why some do. > . . . upper middle class sanctimonious bullshit. Not necessary.
- alextingle 16y ago
  Upvote this comment!! Those of you who are downvoting it should be ashamed of yourselves. If you disagree, you should explain why, not use your privileged position to censor.
  - mchouza 16y ago
    Downvoting is downvoting, it's not censorship.

jasonjei 16y ago

I think what houseabsolute is saying has real validity. As a Chinese American, I've been teased at school for having a last name like "Hung," for speaking a language other than English. We haven't reached a world blind to color, and the faction on HN has a much better understanding of different cultures, skin colors, etc. than the average white American, especially of those in the South. It's a bit of a catch-22 situation. People make generalizations, because it's a very human thing to do; when we write code, we make generalizations when developing our algorithms. And the reason that the White group is at times marginalized is because a large percentage of that group still has a very poor understanding or acceptance of other races. If you go down to Atlanta, Georgia, you will see two worlds: one white (or honorary white, if you're Chinese, for instance), and one non-white. While it's of course in accurate to say that all people in the White subgroup are like this, a significant number have triggered a Bayesian rule that generalizations about White group are made, and the generalizations are usually made about their lack of sensitivity to non-White culture. And there is still hate. My girlfriend, for instance, is Japanese. When she was at UNC Chapel Hill, however, someone pooped in her dorm room and wrote, "Get out you dirty Jap!"

ju2tin 16y ago
Kids tease other kids about ANYTHING. If it weren't about your name, it would be something else. Doesn't mean white society is conspiring to keep Chinese people down. And that UNC Chapel Hill thing is just disgusting. Not sure someone who would do something like that is a good representative of the attitudes of white people in general.
- _politicalist 16y ago
  If you read again, the person you're responding to mentioned being "honorary white". The notion of US whiteness evolves; take for example 19th century racism against the Irish. Blacks were called the "smoked Irish," and the Irish were "niggers turned inside-out". Now of course, Irish-Americans are just normal privileged white people, while African-Americans... well, they're obviously not doing as well. They're heavily imprisoned by the country with the world's highest jail rate.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

What are the advantages you receive due to white male-ness? (Note: I'm asking about advantages to an individual, not statistical advantages to a group. )

Qz 16y ago
Less likely to be stopped by police is just one.
poppysan 16y ago
-No imbred fear of inferiority. -Acceptance all across the nation if not the globe. -Inspirational historical role models that you can relate to taught by default(save for february...lol) -Less chance of long-term jail sentencing for proportional crimes -etc... the list can go on. This is not to say that you should feel bad for having a slight advantage, but not to recognize it can be confusing to those who have lived with the disadvantages.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Interesting - at least two of the disadvantages are entirely self inflicted (inbred fear of inferiority, unwillingness to be inspired by people of a different race). I'd be curious to see numbers for the jail sentencing claim. It sounds plausible, but numbers would be nice.
  - houseabsolute 16y ago
    Only in the sense that any psychological issue stemming from abuse is self-inflicted.

Untitled 16y ago

The white upper middle class are always doing fairly well. Yet poor whites are the ones that are double screwed. They are discriminated against in many countries ("black economic empowerment") and they are loathed by upper middle class white people. A white person with the same economic situation as a black person is screwed. So, poor whites became the punching bag of society. By upper middle class who dislike them (and like someone to pay for their sins) and disliked by black people. Here is a solution: How about removing all legal economic disadvantages from poor white people? (e.g. they are not viewed as "white" on application forms for employment equity purposes), and applying it super hard for the white upper-middle class?

poppysan 16y ago
"A white person with the same economic situation as a black person is screwed." Can come off a bit wrong as well... I think you mean an extremely impoverished white person is worse off than an extremely impoverished black person. Because all blacks aren't poor..(I know you didnt mean this... but it can be read that way) My stance is the opposite, as the white person in the extreme situation has more work opportunities, as well as the added benefit of not always being feared by society as the minority in the extreme situation can be.