6 ms·

Age of Enlightenment: The Promise of Circadian Lighting

65 points by anarbadalov 8y ago

neves 8y ago
All the site looks like an ad. It is interesting, but does not take in consideration factors like the damage that blue light can cause to children's eyes: https://vu.ca/en/journal/blue-light-a-danger-to-your-children-s-eyes/ https://vu.ca/en/journal/blue-light-a-danger-to-your-childre...
- shredprez 8y ago
  The irony of responding with a link to an eyewear shop's website!
  - neves 8y ago
    Sure, but it was the first one that I found about the subject.
    - InitialLastName 8y ago
      All your comment reads like an ad.
    - Retra 8y ago
      Was it also the best one you found?
- anarbadalov 8y ago
  Undark has never run an ad. It's a nonprofit magazine, published through the Knight Science Journalism Fellowship Program.
- opencl 8y ago
  The sun puts out enormous amounts of blue light. Yet actual research[1] shows that children with more exposure to UV-B (obviously highly correlated with sunlight exposure) are less likely to suffer from myopia. This site just says 'blue light is bad for you' and presents no scientific research. And is literally selling blue light blocking lenses. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2588252 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullartic...
  - dTal 8y ago
    Lots of sunlight = outside a lot = lots of far objects to focus on Staring at a screen all the time = eye constantly focused close It doesn't seem like rocket science to me. Blue light seems like a very odd explanation, unless you're selling something...
mkirklions 8y ago
Is anyone else unaffected by lighting and screens? Ive been 'addicted' to the computer/tv since I was 1 years old apparently. I dont find myself affected by any of these blue or yellow lights. I tried making the change and thought it was easier on my eyes, but I didnt feel different.
- giobox 8y ago
  From a purely aesthetic point of view, I do like having bulbs that can shift white balance over the course of a day. In the evening particularly, it feels much more "homely" (what the Danes famously partly refer to in their concept of "hygge") to have warmer lighting (4000k-ish). I also like to have something much more like mid-day sun (5500k) during working hours. The latest smart bulbs make it relatively trivial to have your home do this. There is something nice about pure midday colored light when trying to focus for me that I can't really put my finger on. I'd be lying if I said I had felt this has a measurable effect on my well being, but such things are hard to measure anecdotally. I have personally never liked the software that adjusts computer screen display white balance over the course of a day though.
- derefr 8y ago
  My hypothesis is that the people who get majorly affected by blue light at night, are that way because they’re not getting a strong-enough pulse of blue light in the morning for their circadian clock to calibrate itself by. It latches onto whatever signal it can find, and thus begins to think that “sunrise” happens at 9AM when you sit down at your blue-light-emitting monitor, rather than at 6AM when blue light starts coming down from the sky. Or, shorter: maybe it’s because you have large east-facing exposure in your house.
  - thekingofh 8y ago
    Do you mean West facing? If you had a large East facing exposure then it would give you that pulse of blue light in the morning. I've got a big East facing exposure and don't have any issue with blue light screens. Watch TV every night before bed. No problems.
jimnotgym 8y ago
Since these kind of stories are pretty popular on HN I maintain a list at https://github.com/Jimnotgym/Hacking_Depression https://github.com/Jimnotgym/Hacking_Depression Maybe it will help someone. For anyone who thinks this is medically reckless, please see the earlier discussions where it has already been discussed to death.
ggg9990 8y ago
I’ve installed this lighting through the ground floor of my house. It’s not continuously variable but has three different white point LED strip lighting systems that are transitioned from one to the other based on the color temperature reading from outside.
- realitygrill 8y ago
  Where can I buy such systems?
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    I built the high level system but out of stock components from the usual suspects. I used off the shelf components though. Standard High CRI LED strips, stock power supplies, 0-10v dimmers, and a Raspberry Pi in charge. Most of the hardware and heat sink from superbrightleds.
    - chillacy 8y ago
      LED dimmers introduce another problem in some people, which is the high frequency strobing, which can cause headaches and eyestrain.
      - amluto 8y ago
        A good LED dimmer won’t do this. There’s even a standard now: IEEE 1789. It’s possible, albeit hard, to find IEEE 1789-compliant dimmers.
        ksec 8y ago
        I was about to back to Halogen Lamp, and I was hoping there are improvement to Halogen Lamp then anything else. Are there any Consumer LED Products, that offer High CRI 95+, may be with less UV since that should be less indoor, Long Life, Little degradation on CRI and Lighting over time, and more importantly NO / Zero flicking? I have been asking and thinking, assuming all our electricity is green and cheap, why would I want a LED over Halogen Lamp? All the problem I have, which I absolutely hate and drive me crazy are colour inaccuracy and flickering. Both of which are non existent to Halogen Lamp.
upofadown 8y ago
I have a bank of blue LEDs that shines on my white ceiling in the living room. I live at a northern latitude so the big interest was in avoiding the blahs in the dead of winter. I initially had them on for 12 hours a day centred on solar noon. That produced a feeling I associated with spending the day out in the sun which I did not find pleasant. After some messing around I now have them turn on for 12 minutes every 2 hours during the day. The first blue light interval is an exception, it is 24 minutes. Having 12 minutes for "daybreak" just didn't seem to be enough. The only objective result I can report is that I no longer find myself opening the blinds on the living room window. Before the blue light system I used to open them daily. So ironically I now spend most of my day in semidarkness. I leave them running in the summer when the problem is an excess of light. It doesn't seem to make a difference and it means that I no longer notice when the bue light is on or off.

65 points by anarbadalov 8y ago

All the site looks like an ad. It is interesting, but does not take in consideration factors like the damage that blue light can cause to children's eyes: https://vu.ca/en/journal/blue-light-a-danger-to-your-children-s-eyes/ https://vu.ca/en/journal/blue-light-a-danger-to-your-childre...

shredprez 8y ago
The irony of responding with a link to an eyewear shop's website!
- neves 8y ago
  Sure, but it was the first one that I found about the subject.
  - InitialLastName 8y ago
    All your comment reads like an ad.
  - Retra 8y ago
    Was it also the best one you found?
anarbadalov 8y ago
Undark has never run an ad. It's a nonprofit magazine, published through the Knight Science Journalism Fellowship Program.
opencl 8y ago
The sun puts out enormous amounts of blue light. Yet actual research[1] shows that children with more exposure to UV-B (obviously highly correlated with sunlight exposure) are less likely to suffer from myopia. This site just says 'blue light is bad for you' and presents no scientific research. And is literally selling blue light blocking lenses. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2588252 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullartic...
- dTal 8y ago
  Lots of sunlight = outside a lot = lots of far objects to focus on Staring at a screen all the time = eye constantly focused close It doesn't seem like rocket science to me. Blue light seems like a very odd explanation, unless you're selling something...

mkirklions 8y ago

Is anyone else unaffected by lighting and screens? Ive been 'addicted' to the computer/tv since I was 1 years old apparently. I dont find myself affected by any of these blue or yellow lights. I tried making the change and thought it was easier on my eyes, but I didnt feel different.

giobox 8y ago
From a purely aesthetic point of view, I do like having bulbs that can shift white balance over the course of a day. In the evening particularly, it feels much more "homely" (what the Danes famously partly refer to in their concept of "hygge") to have warmer lighting (4000k-ish). I also like to have something much more like mid-day sun (5500k) during working hours. The latest smart bulbs make it relatively trivial to have your home do this. There is something nice about pure midday colored light when trying to focus for me that I can't really put my finger on. I'd be lying if I said I had felt this has a measurable effect on my well being, but such things are hard to measure anecdotally. I have personally never liked the software that adjusts computer screen display white balance over the course of a day though.
derefr 8y ago
My hypothesis is that the people who get majorly affected by blue light at night, are that way because they’re not getting a strong-enough pulse of blue light in the morning for their circadian clock to calibrate itself by. It latches onto whatever signal it can find, and thus begins to think that “sunrise” happens at 9AM when you sit down at your blue-light-emitting monitor, rather than at 6AM when blue light starts coming down from the sky. Or, shorter: maybe it’s because you have large east-facing exposure in your house.
- thekingofh 8y ago
  Do you mean West facing? If you had a large East facing exposure then it would give you that pulse of blue light in the morning. I've got a big East facing exposure and don't have any issue with blue light screens. Watch TV every night before bed. No problems.

jimnotgym 8y ago

Since these kind of stories are pretty popular on HN I maintain a list at https://github.com/Jimnotgym/Hacking_Depression https://github.com/Jimnotgym/Hacking_Depression Maybe it will help someone. For anyone who thinks this is medically reckless, please see the earlier discussions where it has already been discussed to death.

ggg9990 8y ago

I’ve installed this lighting through the ground floor of my house. It’s not continuously variable but has three different white point LED strip lighting systems that are transitioned from one to the other based on the color temperature reading from outside.

realitygrill 8y ago
Where can I buy such systems?
- ggg9990 8y ago
  I built the high level system but out of stock components from the usual suspects. I used off the shelf components though. Standard High CRI LED strips, stock power supplies, 0-10v dimmers, and a Raspberry Pi in charge. Most of the hardware and heat sink from superbrightleds.
  - chillacy 8y ago
    LED dimmers introduce another problem in some people, which is the high frequency strobing, which can cause headaches and eyestrain.
    - amluto 8y ago
      A good LED dimmer won’t do this. There’s even a standard now: IEEE 1789. It’s possible, albeit hard, to find IEEE 1789-compliant dimmers.
      - ksec 8y ago
        I was about to back to Halogen Lamp, and I was hoping there are improvement to Halogen Lamp then anything else. Are there any Consumer LED Products, that offer High CRI 95+, may be with less UV since that should be less indoor, Long Life, Little degradation on CRI and Lighting over time, and more importantly NO / Zero flicking? I have been asking and thinking, assuming all our electricity is green and cheap, why would I want a LED over Halogen Lamp? All the problem I have, which I absolutely hate and drive me crazy are colour inaccuracy and flickering. Both of which are non existent to Halogen Lamp.

upofadown 8y ago

I have a bank of blue LEDs that shines on my white ceiling in the living room. I live at a northern latitude so the big interest was in avoiding the blahs in the dead of winter. I initially had them on for 12 hours a day centred on solar noon. That produced a feeling I associated with spending the day out in the sun which I did not find pleasant. After some messing around I now have them turn on for 12 minutes every 2 hours during the day. The first blue light interval is an exception, it is 24 minutes. Having 12 minutes for "daybreak" just didn't seem to be enough. The only objective result I can report is that I no longer find myself opening the blinds on the living room window. Before the blue light system I used to open them daily. So ironically I now spend most of my day in semidarkness. I leave them running in the summer when the problem is an excess of light. It doesn't seem to make a difference and it means that I no longer notice when the bue light is on or off.