5 ms·

It's not even a 40km trip. How fast do you expect the train to get up to?

by kss238 8y ago

alex_duf 8y ago
It's fairly common in Europe to have trains go fast, even on short distances. Some London tube line (Victoria line, metropolitan line) got faster than that train. Don't get me wrong, definitely a great step in the right direction.
mhandley 8y ago
London St Pancras to St Albans (a medium size town north of london) is 25 miles. The train takes 19 minutes.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  The question is if whether or not saving ten minutes is worth the amount it would cost the company to do the required upgrades. The answer is, at least right now, not yet.
  - masklinn 8y ago
    It's a brand new regional train yet barely reaches the speed of your average euro commuter train from the 60s (not joking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_Z_5300 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_Z_5300 has a top speed of 81mph).
    - bobthepanda 8y ago
      We are also talking about rail service where none previously existed, in a sprawled out, auto-dependent metropolitan area. High speed rail was not built in a day. It's also worth noting that all rail has to be at this point is faster than its competition, which it is. Cars are slower and this is far too short of a distance for airplanes.
      - projektfu 8y ago
        http://www.tri-rail.com http://www.tri-rail.com The area has had commuter rail for over 20 years. This express service is using previously freight-only lines. What's really going to be impressive is when it connects Orlando.
        masklinn 8y ago
        The 3h they're predicting for Miami - Orlando seems less than impressive. Especially as the Orlando station is at the airport.
        hamandcheese 8y ago
        Especially considering you can fly Orlando to Miami, possibly in less total time. Granted, flying is not a cost effective means to commute, but I don’t think rail service from Orlando to Miami will have too many true commuters on board compared to less frequent travelers.
        ghaff 8y ago
        You're basically talking the equivalent of Boston to New York City although you don't have the same potential for downtown to downtown travel. That's definitely not a daily commute sort of thing. I don't know enough about Florida travel patterns to know how much sense that city pair makes.
        hamandcheese 8y ago
        Personally I’d rather see Orlando to Tampa, but it definitely felt like 80% of the people I went to college with in Orlando were from south Florida.
        masklinn 8y ago
        If you have the market for an HSR (a real one) it's feasible, thought not great and you'd really need better downtown public transport. Assuming direct it'd be a ~1:45 trip, possibly 1:30 on the really modern 350km/h (~220mph) lines, and if you don't have trouble falling asleep you can usually sleep/nap, you can work, and you could have a meal service. Not cheap though, HSR tickets are not $10 (though it's not that far if you're using a high-frequency subscription thing, especially if you're using it daily).
    - saosebastiao 8y ago
      The top speed here is regulatory. There is a 79mph speed limit on tracks shared with freight trains. Also we have weight minimums. Basically most of the reason our trains suck is because our regulatory body sucks.
- rayiner 8y ago
  That's about 75 miles per hour. Acela (our high-speed intercity train) makes the 39 mile Washington to Baltimore trip (with a single stop in-between) at 68 miles per hour. The non-express intercity train makes a two-stop trip at 49 miles per hour. The commuter train is under 40 miles per hour.
  - cbm-vic-20 8y ago
    Acela does the trip between Boston and Providence (43.6 miles by rail) in 33 minutes: that's just about 80mph, which includes one stop along the way. The Northeast Regional does it in 38 minutes- about 69mph on average. The Acela hits 150mph along some stretches in New England.
  - geezerjay 8y ago
    > Acela (our high-speed intercity train) makes the 39 mile Washington to Baltimore trip (with a single stop in-between) at 68 miles per hour. That's not necessarily a fair comparison, as IIRC Amtrack shares rail tracks with cargo trains. Cargo trains are far slower and occupy tracks for longer stretches of time, while passenger trains require longer stretches of track to be reserved for their passage to ensure higher circulation speeds. Thus, having to share tracks with slower trains limits how the track can be allocated to passenger traffic. To put it differently, that would be like stating that a bus is slow because in some stretches of road it is forced to wait cargo trucks to pass.
    - rayiner 8y ago
      Amtrak owns the Boston-DC segment and does not share with freight rail.
      - geezerjay 8y ago
        > Amtrak owns the Boston-DC segment and does not share with freight rail. Wikipedia says that several companies run freight trains over sections of the NEC, as well as the line is also used by commuter trains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor As a comparison, the TGV connection between Paris and Brussels may be a high-speed track, but train speeds grind to a halt way down to 20km/h when passing through track sections used by commuter and freight trains.
masklinn 8y ago
https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/Dijon+Gare,+Dijon,+France/Beaune,+Beaune,+France/@47.1736448,4.8004868,11z/am=t/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x47f29d941a8e4e09:0x1780bd7e0436c84e!2m2!1d5.0279!2d47.323534!1m5!1m1!1s0x47f2f339cb36834d:0x517cc661f66110c5!2m2!1d4.8485343!2d47.022977!3e3 https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/Dijon+Gare,+Dijon,+France/Bea... ~40km, 18 minutes. That's an average speed of ~130km/h. There's also a run with 4 station stops inbetween and makes the trip in 28, so that's still an average speed of ~85km/h. 77km/h average on a ~40km non-stop (I'm assuming) run is quite slow.
- masklinn 8y ago
  > non-stop (I'm assuming) Confirmed looking at the official site, there is no stop between Miami and Ft Lauredale.
- yardie 8y ago
  There is a lot of open fields in that route and there are lot of above grade and under grade crossings. No need to slow for traffic. Brightline covers a few cities with one long strip of a suburb the entire route. Except in length the comparison isn't remotely fair.
  - masklinn 8y ago
    It's a completely fair comparison, Brightline decided not to use grade separation.
    - Operyl 8y ago
      Brightline reused existing tracks for the most part. They just upgraded what was needed over the course of several months.

It's not even a 40km trip. How fast do you expect the train to get up to?

by kss238 8y ago

It's not even a 40km trip. How fast do you expect the train to get up to?

It's fairly common in Europe to have trains go fast, even on short distances. Some London tube line (Victoria line, metropolitan line) got faster than that train. Don't get me wrong, definitely a great step in the right direction.

mhandley 8y ago

London St Pancras to St Albans (a medium size town north of london) is 25 miles. The train takes 19 minutes.

bobthepanda 8y ago
The question is if whether or not saving ten minutes is worth the amount it would cost the company to do the required upgrades. The answer is, at least right now, not yet.
- masklinn 8y ago
  It's a brand new regional train yet barely reaches the speed of your average euro commuter train from the 60s (not joking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_Z_5300 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_Z_5300 has a top speed of 81mph).
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    We are also talking about rail service where none previously existed, in a sprawled out, auto-dependent metropolitan area. High speed rail was not built in a day. It's also worth noting that all rail has to be at this point is faster than its competition, which it is. Cars are slower and this is far too short of a distance for airplanes.
    - projektfu 8y ago
      http://www.tri-rail.com http://www.tri-rail.com The area has had commuter rail for over 20 years. This express service is using previously freight-only lines. What's really going to be impressive is when it connects Orlando.
      - masklinn 8y ago
        The 3h they're predicting for Miami - Orlando seems less than impressive. Especially as the Orlando station is at the airport.
        hamandcheese 8y ago
        Especially considering you can fly Orlando to Miami, possibly in less total time. Granted, flying is not a cost effective means to commute, but I don’t think rail service from Orlando to Miami will have too many true commuters on board compared to less frequent travelers.
        ghaff 8y ago
        You're basically talking the equivalent of Boston to New York City although you don't have the same potential for downtown to downtown travel. That's definitely not a daily commute sort of thing. I don't know enough about Florida travel patterns to know how much sense that city pair makes.
        hamandcheese 8y ago
        Personally I’d rather see Orlando to Tampa, but it definitely felt like 80% of the people I went to college with in Orlando were from south Florida.
        masklinn 8y ago
        If you have the market for an HSR (a real one) it's feasible, thought not great and you'd really need better downtown public transport. Assuming direct it'd be a ~1:45 trip, possibly 1:30 on the really modern 350km/h (~220mph) lines, and if you don't have trouble falling asleep you can usually sleep/nap, you can work, and you could have a meal service. Not cheap though, HSR tickets are not $10 (though it's not that far if you're using a high-frequency subscription thing, especially if you're using it daily).
  - saosebastiao 8y ago
    The top speed here is regulatory. There is a 79mph speed limit on tracks shared with freight trains. Also we have weight minimums. Basically most of the reason our trains suck is because our regulatory body sucks.
rayiner 8y ago
That's about 75 miles per hour. Acela (our high-speed intercity train) makes the 39 mile Washington to Baltimore trip (with a single stop in-between) at 68 miles per hour. The non-express intercity train makes a two-stop trip at 49 miles per hour. The commuter train is under 40 miles per hour.
- cbm-vic-20 8y ago
  Acela does the trip between Boston and Providence (43.6 miles by rail) in 33 minutes: that's just about 80mph, which includes one stop along the way. The Northeast Regional does it in 38 minutes- about 69mph on average. The Acela hits 150mph along some stretches in New England.
- geezerjay 8y ago
  > Acela (our high-speed intercity train) makes the 39 mile Washington to Baltimore trip (with a single stop in-between) at 68 miles per hour. That's not necessarily a fair comparison, as IIRC Amtrack shares rail tracks with cargo trains. Cargo trains are far slower and occupy tracks for longer stretches of time, while passenger trains require longer stretches of track to be reserved for their passage to ensure higher circulation speeds. Thus, having to share tracks with slower trains limits how the track can be allocated to passenger traffic. To put it differently, that would be like stating that a bus is slow because in some stretches of road it is forced to wait cargo trucks to pass.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    Amtrak owns the Boston-DC segment and does not share with freight rail.
    - geezerjay 8y ago
      > Amtrak owns the Boston-DC segment and does not share with freight rail. Wikipedia says that several companies run freight trains over sections of the NEC, as well as the line is also used by commuter trains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor As a comparison, the TGV connection between Paris and Brussels may be a high-speed track, but train speeds grind to a halt way down to 20km/h when passing through track sections used by commuter and freight trains.

masklinn 8y ago

https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/Dijon+Gare,+Dijon,+France/Beaune,+Beaune,+France/@47.1736448,4.8004868,11z/am=t/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x47f29d941a8e4e09:0x1780bd7e0436c84e!2m2!1d5.0279!2d47.323534!1m5!1m1!1s0x47f2f339cb36834d:0x517cc661f66110c5!2m2!1d4.8485343!2d47.022977!3e3 https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/Dijon+Gare,+Dijon,+France/Bea... ~40km, 18 minutes. That's an average speed of ~130km/h. There's also a run with 4 station stops inbetween and makes the trip in 28, so that's still an average speed of ~85km/h. 77km/h average on a ~40km non-stop (I'm assuming) run is quite slow.

masklinn 8y ago
> non-stop (I'm assuming) Confirmed looking at the official site, there is no stop between Miami and Ft Lauredale.
yardie 8y ago
There is a lot of open fields in that route and there are lot of above grade and under grade crossings. No need to slow for traffic. Brightline covers a few cities with one long strip of a suburb the entire route. Except in length the comparison isn't remotely fair.
- masklinn 8y ago
  It's a completely fair comparison, Brightline decided not to use grade separation.
  - Operyl 8y ago
    Brightline reused existing tracks for the most part. They just upgraded what was needed over the course of several months.