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But are they feeling threatened? On a luxury and quality scale there is absolutely no comparison between even a fully loaded Model S and an entry-level German c

by Fins 8y ago

But are they feeling threatened? On a luxury and quality scale there is absolutely no comparison between even a fully loaded Model S and an entry-level German car from a luxury brand. Tesla can do very well with people who think they are "better for the planet" but they have ways to go before they can compete with a proper car in Model S' price range. And it is not exactly a given that Tesla can figure out how to make a car, on scale, with a better build quality than a Yugo, before Daimler/BMW/VW can figure out how to build a fully electric vehicle that can actually be sold at profit.

greglindahl 8y ago
Well, you could always ask Porsche's CEO: http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/16548/porsche-ceo-admits-it-lost-some-customers-to-tesla http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/16548/porsche-ceo-admits-... Obviously he thinks they can compete, but there's an acknowledgement that Tesla has done something significant.
- Fins 8y ago
  Not sure if that's how I would read it. They are seeing falling sales of something that is often considered a "fake" Porsche (gasp, it has 4 doors!). The article makes a much stronger case than the CEO that it is due to Tesla. Panamera isn't Porsche's bread and butter in any case, unlike Model S for Tesla.. When people start abandoning Carreras for Teslas, then it will be time for them to worry. But I am not sure people buying Carreras and alike would stand for Tesla's quality. In any case it will end up with there being more electric cars from different makes, which is probably a good thing. Maybe somebody will come up with a way to make them usable to a general populace without too many compromises.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    A lot of consumers think electric cars are already usable by the general populace without too many compromises. I know you have strong opinions about what you personally want in a car, but projecting them onto everyone else doesn't make for interesting HN discussion.
    - Fins 8y ago
      That goes both ways. Electric cars work for many people. They do not for a non-trivial number. Hell, I want an electric car (not a Tesla, most likely, I am too used to good ergonomics and nice interiors), but first buying a rather expensive car, then having to hitch a ride to/from a charging station every week seems to be suboptimal.
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        It's common that any thread on HN discussing electric cars has at least one person complaining that the huge problem that hinders adoption is that they personally can't charge one conveniently. Sure, it's a problem, but not a big limitation on the overall market when the cars are at < 1% market share. And if you don't want a Tesla, then you should check out the Bolt. Like all long-range electric cars, the styling is going to be a notch down from what the price suggests, because long-range batteries are still expensive.
        Fins 8y ago
        True... electric, especially Tesla threads bring out a lot of... strange opinions. Could not it be that the lack of sufficiently quickly charging solutions and charging infrastructure is not a major problem when the market is that fraction of a percent. It would be interesting to see what needs to happen for electric cars to break above that level. Bolt is pretty nice (and at least Chevrolet has some clue about ergonomics of a car) but still has the same practicality issue for us. We just ended up getting a plug-in for my wife. It can get her to work and back on a charge, and in the car pool lane, if we can find somewhere to charge it for less than the cost of gas, and if we can't, it's not a big deal. It can go almost 600 miles from full. Not to open another can of worms, but at half the price, it's better equipped than a Tesla, too. Would be interesting to see what that 911 plug-in Porsche is promising looks like, although "too expensive for me" is to be expected.
        greglindahl 8y ago
        It's worth noting that despite the significantly cheaper prices of plug-in hybrids vs. battery-electric vehicles, plug-in hybrids aren't selling well: https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ in April put battery vs plug-in hybrid sales approximately equal.

by Fins 8y ago

greglindahl 8y ago

Well, you could always ask Porsche's CEO: http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/16548/porsche-ceo-admits-it-lost-some-customers-to-tesla http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/16548/porsche-ceo-admits-... Obviously he thinks they can compete, but there's an acknowledgement that Tesla has done something significant.

Fins 8y ago
Not sure if that's how I would read it. They are seeing falling sales of something that is often considered a "fake" Porsche (gasp, it has 4 doors!). The article makes a much stronger case than the CEO that it is due to Tesla. Panamera isn't Porsche's bread and butter in any case, unlike Model S for Tesla.. When people start abandoning Carreras for Teslas, then it will be time for them to worry. But I am not sure people buying Carreras and alike would stand for Tesla's quality. In any case it will end up with there being more electric cars from different makes, which is probably a good thing. Maybe somebody will come up with a way to make them usable to a general populace without too many compromises.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  A lot of consumers think electric cars are already usable by the general populace without too many compromises. I know you have strong opinions about what you personally want in a car, but projecting them onto everyone else doesn't make for interesting HN discussion.
  - Fins 8y ago
    That goes both ways. Electric cars work for many people. They do not for a non-trivial number. Hell, I want an electric car (not a Tesla, most likely, I am too used to good ergonomics and nice interiors), but first buying a rather expensive car, then having to hitch a ride to/from a charging station every week seems to be suboptimal.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      It's common that any thread on HN discussing electric cars has at least one person complaining that the huge problem that hinders adoption is that they personally can't charge one conveniently. Sure, it's a problem, but not a big limitation on the overall market when the cars are at < 1% market share. And if you don't want a Tesla, then you should check out the Bolt. Like all long-range electric cars, the styling is going to be a notch down from what the price suggests, because long-range batteries are still expensive.
      - Fins 8y ago
        True... electric, especially Tesla threads bring out a lot of... strange opinions. Could not it be that the lack of sufficiently quickly charging solutions and charging infrastructure is not a major problem when the market is that fraction of a percent. It would be interesting to see what needs to happen for electric cars to break above that level. Bolt is pretty nice (and at least Chevrolet has some clue about ergonomics of a car) but still has the same practicality issue for us. We just ended up getting a plug-in for my wife. It can get her to work and back on a charge, and in the car pool lane, if we can find somewhere to charge it for less than the cost of gas, and if we can't, it's not a big deal. It can go almost 600 miles from full. Not to open another can of worms, but at half the price, it's better equipped than a Tesla, too. Would be interesting to see what that 911 plug-in Porsche is promising looks like, although "too expensive for me" is to be expected.
        greglindahl 8y ago
        It's worth noting that despite the significantly cheaper prices of plug-in hybrids vs. battery-electric vehicles, plug-in hybrids aren't selling well: https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ in April put battery vs plug-in hybrid sales approximately equal.