5 ms·

Ask HN: How to find software jobs that provide private offices in urban areas?

32 points by mlthoughts2018 8y ago

When specifically seeking non-remote software and technology jobs in an urban area, how can you effectively search for employers that are able to provide dedicated private offices for engineers and technology workers? I have previously worked in a private office, in standard high-walled cubicles, in fully open-plan spaces, and in remote positions from my home. For my next job, I know that for my own productivity and cognitive health, a private office is required. No more compromises with noise-cancelling headphones, remote or work from home arrangements, or anything else. Office or bust, required for basic cognitive health. One problem is simply finding companies (beyond Stack Overflow) that possibly offer private offices. Many companies literally only have open-plan seating and cannot, even for the greatest candidate, give an office (let alone possibly viewing offices as mere tools that all candidates deserve for the sake of health and productivity). How can I filter these companies out of my search efficiently by finding companies that do recognize the fundamental importance of private working space? Secondly, how can I present my desire for an office during my interviews, application, or negotiation? My deep conviction is that open-plan offices are not cost effective even in urban areas after accounting for productivity and morale loss, and that a private office is an essential tool, no different than a keyboard or ergonomic monitor set up. Open plan offices actually prevent teamwork and collaboration, and because I really do care about team-oriented workflows and non-superficial collaboration, giving team members important privacy at their discretion is vital. What is a good way to communicate this deeply held personal value such that it is clear that a desire for a private office is directly motivated by a collaborative, team-oriented approach that values productivity and cognitive health?

erubin 8y ago
many universities offer private offices for technical staff, both for working on in-house administrative software or working in research groups. be warned that you might have to accept a lot less compensation than at a big tech company.
- nextos 8y ago
  That's true, but they are sadly moving to open plan too in many instances which is appalling.
mdip 8y ago
I can't answer the first few questions terribly well, because I'm honestly not sure how to go about searching for jobs that directly offer the (rare) private office, these days, however, I have some thoughts on the later questions. As far as the "correct" way to ask for a private office, I think you've done it relatively well right here. If I'm reading between the lines here, correctly, it's implied that the private office, for you, is non-negotiable i.e. no amount of salary[0] will override the private office desire. The way I'd handle it is the way you've presented it. This is probably something to handle during negotiations -- after you've been given an offer -- rather than in an interview[1]. Simply lay it out as you would salary and other elements (e.g. software/hardware that you require to do your job effectively). I'd include most of the explanation that you gave here, though wouldn't frame it as "cognitive health" as that has undertones of mental illness, but rather indicate that it's a matter of productivity. At the end of the day, you are something they are paying a lot of money for so framing the argument in a manner that helps them to understand that, in doing so, they will be optimizing the investment they're making in you, is key. I'd recommend looking at a company that has a reasonable number of private offices -- they're unlikely to build something for you and if they do build something for you, you're likely to encounter inter-personal issues with the remainder of technical staff that does not have (but very likely wants) a private office. You're also likely to run into a lighter version of the kinds of problems you get when you're the "only remote person" -- out of sight out of mind. Staff may see the open-office as a license to walk up to someones desk where your private office will serve as an unconscious barrier in that case. At least in the places I've worked, it's not unusual to have 10% of desk space be offices and for some of the senior engineering staff (usually folks who have been with the company for a while) have private offices. I also don't find what you're looking for to be terribly burdensome (again, provided they don't have to build something for you). In past jobs, I've seen more onerous requests be offered if the candidate is excellent and we were in a tight spot or other circumstances warranted. [0] OK, everything has a price - for a few million, most of us will work with our hands tied behind our backs, but I digress... [1] In the most ideal circumstances, you'll be a great fit and will be far ahead of the next best candidate that they didn't make an offer to. This invokes loss aversion on the part of the hiring manager making it more likely they'll be willing to entertain your request if it otherwise isn't a normal thing for them.
juli1pb 8y ago
1. apply for the job 2. mention your requirements to the recruiter 3. if ok, pass the interview 4. if you pass, get the job, otherwise, back in 1. What you think is probably not important: at the end of the day, what matters is what your employer thinks. If they think you need or deserve a private office, they will give you - otherwise, you might need to change your expectations. Note: as noted, universities often offers private office. I had such a job. Nice but my salary was a fourth of what I have today. So if you do not want to make compromise on your office space, you might to do some on your compensation.
huebnerob 8y ago
Considering that you're asking for something that is politically and logistically impossible at many, if not most, companies, you just need to ask immediately if this is something that can be done, and part ways if the answer is no.
tripletao 8y ago
Perhaps you could work remote, but rent an office in a co-working space with co-tenants who give you something close to your desired experience? A lot more difficult for machine learning than for a web developer, though... Everyone in my group has an office, so it's not impossible, even outside academia. I'd still find the inquiry a little weird, especially with the "cognitive health" framing. It would be better to say "I want to work to the best of my abilities, and I've found that I'm most productive with a private office".
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  Are you able to name which company you work for, or which cities they offer offices in?
kapauldo 8y ago
Just apply to government jobs
wai1234 8y ago
Open plan was invented by bean counters and sold to impressionable engineers through a combination of rah-rah misdirection and pop psychology. They save money, period. No claim of improved collaboration or productivity has ever been demonstrated. In fact, lots of studies say the opposite. The fact is that senior management wants to save money and they will do that no matter what the downside impact is on productivity or morale. You can measure the reduction in square feet of rent easily, you can't measure lost productivity or morale at all. Combine the money savings with the usual 'visionary' leaders claiming the benefits of open plan, and you will lose that battle every time. As long as engineers will put up with crappy working conditions, crappy conditions will persist.
- oceanghost 8y ago
  It is almost universally the case that the people and making decisions about open office plans themselves have offices.
bsvalley 8y ago
Tell the recruiter. I'm looking for an environment where I'll have my private space. Unfortunately you can't filter that anywhere on the internet. You have to get in touch with the recruiter 1st. Keep in mind, majority of the recruiters will ignore your requirement (because it is very odd... indeed), they'll skip it and put you straight into the classic hiring process and tell you "yeah sure we'll see what we can do I'm sure it's doable". So you'll have to talk to a member of the hiring team, which is probably 2-3 steps down the road. If you get a phone screen most likely you'll end up talking to a random engineer. Until you get to the actual hiring manager who is the only person who can come up with a legit answer to your question. Anyway, long story short you have to start the hiring process with a company in order to find out if they offer private offices to their employees.
thorin 8y ago
I've worked for 5 very large companies and one startup. I'd say if you have a critical role in the company and aren't "just a dev/tester etc" you wouldn't have a problem getting private space when you need it. I've often found programme managers or senior architects can get a room for large periods of time or project teams of 3/4 people can get a space for a number of days/weeks/months for critical projects. I'd be surprised if this works differently anywhere else but the default always seems to be cubes
borplk 8y ago
Companies that don't have the "everyone with an office" culture are not going to accept. Even if they did you sure as hell wouldn't want to be the single snowflake there with the private office. Companies that do have that culture are so so rare that I don't think you could find a job that matches all your other requirements (location, pay, culture, role). And I also think most of those companies that have offices tend to be "stuck in the past". Meaning, they still haven't adopted the open office fad yet or are soon going to do it when the next bean counter comes in. This is quit different from companies that have offices because they are "ahead and over the open office fad".
Spooky23 8y ago
Work remote and rent an office from a law firm.

erubin 8y ago

many universities offer private offices for technical staff, both for working on in-house administrative software or working in research groups. be warned that you might have to accept a lot less compensation than at a big tech company.

nextos 8y ago
That's true, but they are sadly moving to open plan too in many instances which is appalling.

mdip 8y ago

I can't answer the first few questions terribly well, because I'm honestly not sure how to go about searching for jobs that directly offer the (rare) private office, these days, however, I have some thoughts on the later questions. As far as the "correct" way to ask for a private office, I think you've done it relatively well right here. If I'm reading between the lines here, correctly, it's implied that the private office, for you, is non-negotiable i.e. no amount of salary[0] will override the private office desire. The way I'd handle it is the way you've presented it. This is probably something to handle during negotiations -- after you've been given an offer -- rather than in an interview[1]. Simply lay it out as you would salary and other elements (e.g. software/hardware that you require to do your job effectively). I'd include most of the explanation that you gave here, though wouldn't frame it as "cognitive health" as that has undertones of mental illness, but rather indicate that it's a matter of productivity. At the end of the day, you are something they are paying a lot of money for so framing the argument in a manner that helps them to understand that, in doing so, they will be optimizing the investment they're making in you, is key. I'd recommend looking at a company that has a reasonable number of private offices -- they're unlikely to build something for you and if they do build something for you, you're likely to encounter inter-personal issues with the remainder of technical staff that does not have (but very likely wants) a private office. You're also likely to run into a lighter version of the kinds of problems you get when you're the "only remote person" -- out of sight out of mind. Staff may see the open-office as a license to walk up to someones desk where your private office will serve as an unconscious barrier in that case. At least in the places I've worked, it's not unusual to have 10% of desk space be offices and for some of the senior engineering staff (usually folks who have been with the company for a while) have private offices. I also don't find what you're looking for to be terribly burdensome (again, provided they don't have to build something for you). In past jobs, I've seen more onerous requests be offered if the candidate is excellent and we were in a tight spot or other circumstances warranted. [0] OK, everything has a price - for a few million, most of us will work with our hands tied behind our backs, but I digress... [1] In the most ideal circumstances, you'll be a great fit and will be far ahead of the next best candidate that they didn't make an offer to. This invokes loss aversion on the part of the hiring manager making it more likely they'll be willing to entertain your request if it otherwise isn't a normal thing for them.

juli1pb 8y ago

1. apply for the job 2. mention your requirements to the recruiter 3. if ok, pass the interview 4. if you pass, get the job, otherwise, back in 1. What you think is probably not important: at the end of the day, what matters is what your employer thinks. If they think you need or deserve a private office, they will give you - otherwise, you might need to change your expectations. Note: as noted, universities often offers private office. I had such a job. Nice but my salary was a fourth of what I have today. So if you do not want to make compromise on your office space, you might to do some on your compensation.

huebnerob 8y ago

Considering that you're asking for something that is politically and logistically impossible at many, if not most, companies, you just need to ask immediately if this is something that can be done, and part ways if the answer is no.

tripletao 8y ago

Perhaps you could work remote, but rent an office in a co-working space with co-tenants who give you something close to your desired experience? A lot more difficult for machine learning than for a web developer, though... Everyone in my group has an office, so it's not impossible, even outside academia. I'd still find the inquiry a little weird, especially with the "cognitive health" framing. It would be better to say "I want to work to the best of my abilities, and I've found that I'm most productive with a private office".

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
Are you able to name which company you work for, or which cities they offer offices in?

kapauldo 8y ago

Just apply to government jobs

wai1234 8y ago

Open plan was invented by bean counters and sold to impressionable engineers through a combination of rah-rah misdirection and pop psychology. They save money, period. No claim of improved collaboration or productivity has ever been demonstrated. In fact, lots of studies say the opposite. The fact is that senior management wants to save money and they will do that no matter what the downside impact is on productivity or morale. You can measure the reduction in square feet of rent easily, you can't measure lost productivity or morale at all. Combine the money savings with the usual 'visionary' leaders claiming the benefits of open plan, and you will lose that battle every time. As long as engineers will put up with crappy working conditions, crappy conditions will persist.

oceanghost 8y ago
It is almost universally the case that the people and making decisions about open office plans themselves have offices.

bsvalley 8y ago

Tell the recruiter. I'm looking for an environment where I'll have my private space. Unfortunately you can't filter that anywhere on the internet. You have to get in touch with the recruiter 1st. Keep in mind, majority of the recruiters will ignore your requirement (because it is very odd... indeed), they'll skip it and put you straight into the classic hiring process and tell you "yeah sure we'll see what we can do I'm sure it's doable". So you'll have to talk to a member of the hiring team, which is probably 2-3 steps down the road. If you get a phone screen most likely you'll end up talking to a random engineer. Until you get to the actual hiring manager who is the only person who can come up with a legit answer to your question. Anyway, long story short you have to start the hiring process with a company in order to find out if they offer private offices to their employees.

thorin 8y ago

I've worked for 5 very large companies and one startup. I'd say if you have a critical role in the company and aren't "just a dev/tester etc" you wouldn't have a problem getting private space when you need it. I've often found programme managers or senior architects can get a room for large periods of time or project teams of 3/4 people can get a space for a number of days/weeks/months for critical projects. I'd be surprised if this works differently anywhere else but the default always seems to be cubes

borplk 8y ago

Companies that don't have the "everyone with an office" culture are not going to accept. Even if they did you sure as hell wouldn't want to be the single snowflake there with the private office. Companies that do have that culture are so so rare that I don't think you could find a job that matches all your other requirements (location, pay, culture, role). And I also think most of those companies that have offices tend to be "stuck in the past". Meaning, they still haven't adopted the open office fad yet or are soon going to do it when the next bean counter comes in. This is quit different from companies that have offices because they are "ahead and over the open office fad".

Spooky23 8y ago

Work remote and rent an office from a law firm.