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How so? They are simply making people liable for breaking laws that already existed. How are they blocking you? How are they cementing their power by punishing

How so? They are simply making people liable for breaking laws that already existed. How are they blocking you? How are they cementing their power by punishing people for inciting to violence against people with specific religious/political viewpoints or sexual orientations etc.?

naturalgradient 8y ago
You seem to be completely uninformed regarding the actual implementation of the law. Any criticism of anything can and will be deleted under the scope of the law. Want to criticise any policy? Hatespeech. Criticise religion? Hatespeech. It would of course never hold up in court, but that doesn't matter, for social media platforms deleting anything that could be construed as hate by anyone who feels offended is the path of least resistance. You are not made accountable for breaking laws that already existed, you are being censored for something that is not illegal, never was, still isn't, but could offend someone if it's disagreement on a sensitive topic. It's the end of any sort of free speech on social media in Germany.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  I'm sorry, but you're spouting absolute nonsense. I have discussed this topic many times with my German girlfriend and her family in Germany (we live in Denmark), and you are so completely off on your "predictions", it's not even funny. German law has a very specific definition of what material is targeted, and "hate speech" is an inadequate translation. Only public speech that incites violence against religious, political groups or sexual orientations and the like, will be targeted by this. NOT general critique of religions, nor of political standpoints or anything of the sort. Only public speech that incites to violence. You are utterly wrong in your scaremongering, and this is NOT the "end of free speech on German social media".
  - naturalgradient 8y ago
    I am not predicting anything, this is how it has been implemented. You are aware this law is already in effect and thousands have been deleted/banned? But this debate is pointless because you clearly neither speak German, understand German law, nor are interested in revising your opinion that this is anything other than a fight of the righteous against the bad. The law is likely unconstitutional, widely overreaching, and does in fact delete these things: https://verfassungsblog.de/das-netzdg-und-die-vermutung-fuer-die-freiheit-der-rede/ https://verfassungsblog.de/das-netzdg-und-die-vermutung-fuer... https://netzpolitik.org/2018/die-meinungsfreiheit-und-das-netzdg-schwerwiegender-verstoss-gegen-grundrecht/ https://netzpolitik.org/2018/die-meinungsfreiheit-und-das-ne... https://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2017-03/heiko-maas-gesetzentwurf-soziale-netzwerke-hass-falschnachrichten https://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2017-03/heiko-maas-gese... There are countless examples, e.g. Facebook censoring satire accounts: http://meedia.de/2018/01/03/netzdg-twitter-sperrt-account-des-satiremagazins-titanic-wg-beatrix-von-storch-und-loest-zensur-debatte-aus/ http://meedia.de/2018/01/03/netzdg-twitter-sperrt-account-de... You are celebrating authoritarian censorship because you think it targets the right people. You are calling me out for something you have no firsthand knowledge or expertise on because of tribalism. Stop.
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. I am a firm supporter of free speech. I am also a firm believer in consequences when that speech leads to violence and persecution.
      - jk2323 8y ago
        Look. Posting on facebook "lets lynch some {ni..ers, Jews, Arabs, minority of your choice} also gets you into trouble with the law in the states. I doubt that anyone claims this is free speech. But questioning the Open borders situation in Europe Germany in public (speak facebook) that is BLUNTLY violating German law and Dublin III regulation is what gets you blocked. It is a left wing junta in the final stages that is ruling Germany at the moment. And making law by chancellor decree has been out of fashion in Germany for over 70 years. Not a good idea to bring it back!
        KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Oh, so all of those politicians and right wingers who are calling for hermetically closing the borders and imposing special laws on immigrants have all been fined and/or put in jail? That's great news! Why hadn't I heard about this before? Perhaps because it's complete nonsense? Left wing junta? With a Christian conservative chancellor and completely ineffectual so-called left wing parties? That's hilarious. Germany is drifting strongly to the right, and it must be stopped.
        jk2323 8y ago
        "Oh, so all of those politicians and right wingers who are calling for hermetically closing the borders and imposing special laws on immigrants have all been fined and/or put in jail?" Some of them. How about not calling for new laws, how about applying EXISTING laws? "That's great news! Why hadn't I heard about this before? Perhaps because it's complete nonsense?" Possibly. But also possible that you get your news from Spiegel Online. We will never know... "Left wing junta? With a Christian conservative chancellor and completely ineffectual so-called left wing parties?" Former Stasi Agent Merkel is a left-wing dream come true. All left wing projects were realized by her. Marriage for all? Sure. (By the way Marriage with a child? Ok, we accept if you are a Muslim immigrant. Polygamy? Okay, we accept.) End of nuclear energy? Done by Merkel. Energy revolution? Done! Open boarders for all? Done! It is not surprising that the left wing musician Campino and former left wing foreign minister Fischer have strongly spoken for Merkel. "We can not have a better chancellor than her". IM Erika (her Stasi undercover name) has been a nightmare for Germany.
  - jk2323 8y ago
    "I have discussed this topic many times with my German girlfriend and her family in Germany (we live in Denmark), and you are so completely off on your "predictions", it's not even funny." Honest advice: Get another girl friend. No kidding!
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      That was absolutely uncalled for.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jk2323 8y ago
I removed a bad word. This should not get flagged. The truth will set you free! "How so? They are simply making people liable for breaking laws that already existed." There are not laws about that. It is made up by former stasi Merkel that has been breaking German laws since a long time. http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/bundesverfassun.. http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/bundesverfassun.... "How are they blocking you?" They give dubious semi-private organisations (Speak Antonio Amadeus foundation, run by another former stasi http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/27/ex-stasi-led-foun.. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/27/ex-stasi-led-foun.... ) access to facebook data of US citizens like me. I don't think facebook is aware how much of a liability is created there. Why not give Uncle Putin of Emperor Xi the right to block US citizens at will? A sentence like: "I don't think immigrants from middle eastern tribal societies fit well into our open society" breaks NO German law and gets you easily blocked for 30 days (By the way, why should German laws apply to me as an US citizen not living in Germany? Please clarify!). At the same time a sentence like: "All Israelis are bloodsucking Jews" may easily NOT get you blocked. The famous lawyer Steinhoefel has won many lawsuits against Facebook and forced them to unblock people/remove 30days blocks. https://facebook-sperre.steinhoefel.de https://facebook-sperre.steinhoefel.de Regarding my stasi accusations: https://adarapress.com/2015/10/19/was-angela-merkel-a-stasi-informer-some-say-ja/ https://adarapress.com/2015/10/19/was-angela-merkel-a-stasi-... I actually can provide the picture of Merkel, far (speak 3h by public transport) in the outskirts of Berlin, observing the house of former dissident Havelmann. Merkel has forbidden the publication of this picture, claiming "privacy rights". You can have only privacy rights on your own pictures, it proofs that it is her! If there is interest I will upload it.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  30 days blocks are handed out solely by Facebook's own hand. It has nothing to do with this law. You're linking to Breitbart and similar sites. Those are not credible sources. And please, I'm not a fan of Merkel either. So I don't know what you're on about.
  - jk2323 8y ago
    "30 days blocks are handed out solely by Facebook's own hand. It has nothing to do with this law." It was agreed on with the ruling junta and the "Antonio Amadeus foundation" is intermingling with this. "You're linking to Breitbart and similar sites. " For all things claimed you can find other sources, I used the first google result. You can find them also in your beloved Spiegel. Do you want to see her picture where she is working for the state security and is observing a dissident? I can post it.

naturalgradient 8y ago

You seem to be completely uninformed regarding the actual implementation of the law. Any criticism of anything can and will be deleted under the scope of the law. Want to criticise any policy? Hatespeech. Criticise religion? Hatespeech. It would of course never hold up in court, but that doesn't matter, for social media platforms deleting anything that could be construed as hate by anyone who feels offended is the path of least resistance. You are not made accountable for breaking laws that already existed, you are being censored for something that is not illegal, never was, still isn't, but could offend someone if it's disagreement on a sensitive topic. It's the end of any sort of free speech on social media in Germany.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
I'm sorry, but you're spouting absolute nonsense. I have discussed this topic many times with my German girlfriend and her family in Germany (we live in Denmark), and you are so completely off on your "predictions", it's not even funny. German law has a very specific definition of what material is targeted, and "hate speech" is an inadequate translation. Only public speech that incites violence against religious, political groups or sexual orientations and the like, will be targeted by this. NOT general critique of religions, nor of political standpoints or anything of the sort. Only public speech that incites to violence. You are utterly wrong in your scaremongering, and this is NOT the "end of free speech on German social media".
- naturalgradient 8y ago
  I am not predicting anything, this is how it has been implemented. You are aware this law is already in effect and thousands have been deleted/banned? But this debate is pointless because you clearly neither speak German, understand German law, nor are interested in revising your opinion that this is anything other than a fight of the righteous against the bad. The law is likely unconstitutional, widely overreaching, and does in fact delete these things: https://verfassungsblog.de/das-netzdg-und-die-vermutung-fuer-die-freiheit-der-rede/ https://verfassungsblog.de/das-netzdg-und-die-vermutung-fuer... https://netzpolitik.org/2018/die-meinungsfreiheit-und-das-netzdg-schwerwiegender-verstoss-gegen-grundrecht/ https://netzpolitik.org/2018/die-meinungsfreiheit-und-das-ne... https://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2017-03/heiko-maas-gesetzentwurf-soziale-netzwerke-hass-falschnachrichten https://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2017-03/heiko-maas-gese... There are countless examples, e.g. Facebook censoring satire accounts: http://meedia.de/2018/01/03/netzdg-twitter-sperrt-account-des-satiremagazins-titanic-wg-beatrix-von-storch-und-loest-zensur-debatte-aus/ http://meedia.de/2018/01/03/netzdg-twitter-sperrt-account-de... You are celebrating authoritarian censorship because you think it targets the right people. You are calling me out for something you have no firsthand knowledge or expertise on because of tribalism. Stop.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. I am a firm supporter of free speech. I am also a firm believer in consequences when that speech leads to violence and persecution.
    - jk2323 8y ago
      Look. Posting on facebook "lets lynch some {ni..ers, Jews, Arabs, minority of your choice} also gets you into trouble with the law in the states. I doubt that anyone claims this is free speech. But questioning the Open borders situation in Europe Germany in public (speak facebook) that is BLUNTLY violating German law and Dublin III regulation is what gets you blocked. It is a left wing junta in the final stages that is ruling Germany at the moment. And making law by chancellor decree has been out of fashion in Germany for over 70 years. Not a good idea to bring it back!
      - KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Oh, so all of those politicians and right wingers who are calling for hermetically closing the borders and imposing special laws on immigrants have all been fined and/or put in jail? That's great news! Why hadn't I heard about this before? Perhaps because it's complete nonsense? Left wing junta? With a Christian conservative chancellor and completely ineffectual so-called left wing parties? That's hilarious. Germany is drifting strongly to the right, and it must be stopped.
        jk2323 8y ago
        "Oh, so all of those politicians and right wingers who are calling for hermetically closing the borders and imposing special laws on immigrants have all been fined and/or put in jail?" Some of them. How about not calling for new laws, how about applying EXISTING laws? "That's great news! Why hadn't I heard about this before? Perhaps because it's complete nonsense?" Possibly. But also possible that you get your news from Spiegel Online. We will never know... "Left wing junta? With a Christian conservative chancellor and completely ineffectual so-called left wing parties?" Former Stasi Agent Merkel is a left-wing dream come true. All left wing projects were realized by her. Marriage for all? Sure. (By the way Marriage with a child? Ok, we accept if you are a Muslim immigrant. Polygamy? Okay, we accept.) End of nuclear energy? Done by Merkel. Energy revolution? Done! Open boarders for all? Done! It is not surprising that the left wing musician Campino and former left wing foreign minister Fischer have strongly spoken for Merkel. "We can not have a better chancellor than her". IM Erika (her Stasi undercover name) has been a nightmare for Germany.
- jk2323 8y ago
  "I have discussed this topic many times with my German girlfriend and her family in Germany (we live in Denmark), and you are so completely off on your "predictions", it's not even funny." Honest advice: Get another girl friend. No kidding!
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    That was absolutely uncalled for.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jk2323 8y ago

I removed a bad word. This should not get flagged. The truth will set you free! "How so? They are simply making people liable for breaking laws that already existed." There are not laws about that. It is made up by former stasi Merkel that has been breaking German laws since a long time. http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/bundesverfassun.. http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/bundesverfassun.... "How are they blocking you?" They give dubious semi-private organisations (Speak Antonio Amadeus foundation, run by another former stasi http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/27/ex-stasi-led-foun.. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/27/ex-stasi-led-foun.... ) access to facebook data of US citizens like me. I don't think facebook is aware how much of a liability is created there. Why not give Uncle Putin of Emperor Xi the right to block US citizens at will? A sentence like: "I don't think immigrants from middle eastern tribal societies fit well into our open society" breaks NO German law and gets you easily blocked for 30 days (By the way, why should German laws apply to me as an US citizen not living in Germany? Please clarify!). At the same time a sentence like: "All Israelis are bloodsucking Jews" may easily NOT get you blocked. The famous lawyer Steinhoefel has won many lawsuits against Facebook and forced them to unblock people/remove 30days blocks. https://facebook-sperre.steinhoefel.de https://facebook-sperre.steinhoefel.de Regarding my stasi accusations: https://adarapress.com/2015/10/19/was-angela-merkel-a-stasi-informer-some-say-ja/ https://adarapress.com/2015/10/19/was-angela-merkel-a-stasi-... I actually can provide the picture of Merkel, far (speak 3h by public transport) in the outskirts of Berlin, observing the house of former dissident Havelmann. Merkel has forbidden the publication of this picture, claiming "privacy rights". You can have only privacy rights on your own pictures, it proofs that it is her! If there is interest I will upload it.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
30 days blocks are handed out solely by Facebook's own hand. It has nothing to do with this law. You're linking to Breitbart and similar sites. Those are not credible sources. And please, I'm not a fan of Merkel either. So I don't know what you're on about.
- jk2323 8y ago
  "30 days blocks are handed out solely by Facebook's own hand. It has nothing to do with this law." It was agreed on with the ruling junta and the "Antonio Amadeus foundation" is intermingling with this. "You're linking to Breitbart and similar sites. " For all things claimed you can find other sources, I used the first google result. You can find them also in your beloved Spiegel. Do you want to see her picture where she is working for the state security and is observing a dissident? I can post it.