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Well, an obvious example is the NDE phenomena, majority of the time accompanied by an OBE ~ person's heart stops, they have an OBE NDE, and directly experience

by Valmar 8y ago

Well, an obvious example is the NDE phenomena, majority of the time accompanied by an OBE ~ person's heart stops, they have an OBE NDE, and directly experience themselves explicitly outside of their lifeless body. This is an experience that many people have had, and yet, because of its nature, it cannot be tested with the same tools used in the physical sciences. And yet, because it cannot be poked, prodded or easily tested as with matter and physics, the reductionist materialists claim it cannot exist, denying the experiences of thousands of people, most arrogantly at that. And yet, many NDE experiencers have produced veridical proof that they were indeed consciousness, detached from their body.

dwaltrip 8y ago
> reductionist materialists claim it cannot exist They don't claim the person did not have a subjective experience. They simply claim that the subjective experience was not accompanied by someone's consciousness actually viewing the physical room at a vantage point that is outside of their physical body. In other words, the brain is incredibly powerful, and can produce overwhelmingly vivid internal experiences -- an NDE could easily be an intensified internal experience. There are so many examples of how the brain does this in less mundane situations than biological death, it would be unreasonable to rule that out as a very strong possibility. You might ask why are NDEs so similar? The same reason that alien abduction stories are so similar. The particular details are have over time become embedded in the social subconscious, and thus are strongly suggestive to the individual experience and also to the retelling of it. Whenever we tell a story, we bend details a bit towards common templates or archetypical elements. Even more so if the experience itself was vague and hard to remember or express. And of course, it's very possible a decent percentage of people are unwittingly fabricating the NDE. We aren't the most reliable recorders of our own experiences. > NDE experiencers have produced veridical proof that they were indeed consciousness, detached from their body This is an incredible claim. What hard evidence is there to support it?

by Valmar 8y ago

dwaltrip 8y ago

> reductionist materialists claim it cannot exist They don't claim the person did not have a subjective experience. They simply claim that the subjective experience was not accompanied by someone's consciousness actually viewing the physical room at a vantage point that is outside of their physical body. In other words, the brain is incredibly powerful, and can produce overwhelmingly vivid internal experiences -- an NDE could easily be an intensified internal experience. There are so many examples of how the brain does this in less mundane situations than biological death, it would be unreasonable to rule that out as a very strong possibility. You might ask why are NDEs so similar? The same reason that alien abduction stories are so similar. The particular details are have over time become embedded in the social subconscious, and thus are strongly suggestive to the individual experience and also to the retelling of it. Whenever we tell a story, we bend details a bit towards common templates or archetypical elements. Even more so if the experience itself was vague and hard to remember or express. And of course, it's very possible a decent percentage of people are unwittingly fabricating the NDE. We aren't the most reliable recorders of our own experiences. > NDE experiencers have produced veridical proof that they were indeed consciousness, detached from their body This is an incredible claim. What hard evidence is there to support it?