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Not necessarily, true. But these aren't bacteria and this is a whole lotta genes - so life here absorbing so much DNA coherently doesn't sound more plausible th

Not necessarily, true. But these aren't bacteria and this is a whole lotta genes - so life here absorbing so much DNA coherently doesn't sound more plausible than eggs hatching to me. (Meteorites are freezing cold if you touch them right after they land, despite ablating most of their mass on the way down. Or rather, iron ones are - carbonaceous, I have no idea.)

mirimir 8y ago
We humans use genes that were delivered by viruses.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  We get DNA not just from viruses, but also vesicles. All cells, from humble bacteria all the way to our relatively huge and dynamic human cells, package snippets of DNA to send to other cells. It's like a message in a bottle, thrown out into the "sea" of our atmosphere. Or an email, and viruses are spam. Previously on HN: Cells Talk in a Language That Looks Like Viruses. [0] 800 million viruses fall onto every square meter of Earth every day. They kill 20% of bacterial life every day. [1] Video simulation of HIV infecting a cell and reproducing. [2] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  Yes - a bit at a time, I take it whereas some bacteria can swallow whole chromosomes entire (so-called "competence"); so I was skeptical about so much DNA transferring to just one kind of creature, at once. But now I think about it, the frozen octopi or eggs would bring a lot of alien octopi viruses along with them that might be able to do the job for all I know.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Sure. But this isn't science. It's fiction. Or religion. If it's not testable, it's not science.
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      We don't have spacecraft? We never will? It's recently been found that Europa sprays out detectable water to great distances, and that traces of amino acid would be preserved at such temperatures. So we may have one answer re life soon. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/may/14/europa-moon-of-jupiter-prime-candidate-for-alien-life-after-water-blast-found https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/may/14/europa-moon-... If you're assuming that life from, say, Europa, even if we found it, and it was the point of origin for octopi, would have altered so much as to have no genetic or chemical similarity to octopi now, I have no idea what your evidence is for that. To the contrary, there are plenty of very highly evolutionarily conserved proteins, hormones, etc - melatonin is one (it was originally an antioxidant for one-celled creatures.) Refusing to entertain hypotheses by reason of expense isn't science.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Well, by all means look for fossils of such alien octopai. But just how would you know that they were alien? Preserved artifacts, maybe? Basically, I'm arguing that going from problematic features of octopus evolution and genetics to alien octopai is quite the stretch.
        Nomentatus 8y ago
        You've misunderstood Popper's falsification doctrine - if any experiment (of the hypothesis OR null hypothesis) that risks falsification can be devised, you're on the side of the angels. You're welcome to say "Yuk! Yukky idea I just hate it!" but don't please don't peddle a false version of philosophy of science instead of just saying that. You should also be civil enough to mark your change in position in the last missive.

mirimir 8y ago

We humans use genes that were delivered by viruses.

stephengillie 8y ago
We get DNA not just from viruses, but also vesicles. All cells, from humble bacteria all the way to our relatively huge and dynamic human cells, package snippets of DNA to send to other cells. It's like a message in a bottle, thrown out into the "sea" of our atmosphere. Or an email, and viruses are spam. Previously on HN: Cells Talk in a Language That Looks Like Viruses. [0] 800 million viruses fall onto every square meter of Earth every day. They kill 20% of bacterial life every day. [1] Video simulation of HIV infecting a cell and reproducing. [2] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396
Nomentatus 8y ago
Yes - a bit at a time, I take it whereas some bacteria can swallow whole chromosomes entire (so-called "competence"); so I was skeptical about so much DNA transferring to just one kind of creature, at once. But now I think about it, the frozen octopi or eggs would bring a lot of alien octopi viruses along with them that might be able to do the job for all I know.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Sure. But this isn't science. It's fiction. Or religion. If it's not testable, it's not science.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    We don't have spacecraft? We never will? It's recently been found that Europa sprays out detectable water to great distances, and that traces of amino acid would be preserved at such temperatures. So we may have one answer re life soon. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/may/14/europa-moon-of-jupiter-prime-candidate-for-alien-life-after-water-blast-found https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/may/14/europa-moon-... If you're assuming that life from, say, Europa, even if we found it, and it was the point of origin for octopi, would have altered so much as to have no genetic or chemical similarity to octopi now, I have no idea what your evidence is for that. To the contrary, there are plenty of very highly evolutionarily conserved proteins, hormones, etc - melatonin is one (it was originally an antioxidant for one-celled creatures.) Refusing to entertain hypotheses by reason of expense isn't science.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Well, by all means look for fossils of such alien octopai. But just how would you know that they were alien? Preserved artifacts, maybe? Basically, I'm arguing that going from problematic features of octopus evolution and genetics to alien octopai is quite the stretch.
      - Nomentatus 8y ago
        You've misunderstood Popper's falsification doctrine - if any experiment (of the hypothesis OR null hypothesis) that risks falsification can be devised, you're on the side of the angels. You're welcome to say "Yuk! Yukky idea I just hate it!" but don't please don't peddle a false version of philosophy of science instead of just saying that. You should also be civil enough to mark your change in position in the last missive.