5 ms·

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If yo

by agar 8y ago

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I'm guessing the authors of that journal article, were they to read this news story, would simultaneously hyperventilate and strain their necks from the excessive sighing and head shaking.

Nomentatus 8y ago
This article gives direct quotes from the authors, and the quotes are exciting, (33 authors FWIW) https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuses-cephalopods-earth-outer-space-aliens-cryopreserved-eggs-cambrian-explosion https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuse...
- ianai 8y ago
  Not entirely sure I can take that site seriously. Their ads seem pretty strongly in the fake news territory.
  - AlexCoventry 8y ago
    The original paper is here. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610718300798 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071... Not sure I can take this paper seriously, either, but it's clear they're taking themselves seriously (in a good way.)
- mirimir 8y ago
  OK, but "gene complexes", not necessarily octopuses, per se.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    Not necessarily, true. But these aren't bacteria and this is a whole lotta genes - so life here absorbing so much DNA coherently doesn't sound more plausible than eggs hatching to me. (Meteorites are freezing cold if you touch them right after they land, despite ablating most of their mass on the way down. Or rather, iron ones are - carbonaceous, I have no idea.)
    - mirimir 8y ago
      We humans use genes that were delivered by viruses.
      - stephengillie 8y ago
        We get DNA not just from viruses, but also vesicles. All cells, from humble bacteria all the way to our relatively huge and dynamic human cells, package snippets of DNA to send to other cells. It's like a message in a bottle, thrown out into the "sea" of our atmosphere. Or an email, and viruses are spam. Previously on HN: Cells Talk in a Language That Looks Like Viruses. [0] 800 million viruses fall onto every square meter of Earth every day. They kill 20% of bacterial life every day. [1] Video simulation of HIV infecting a cell and reproducing. [2] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396
      - Nomentatus 8y ago
        Yes - a bit at a time, I take it whereas some bacteria can swallow whole chromosomes entire (so-called "competence"); so I was skeptical about so much DNA transferring to just one kind of creature, at once. But now I think about it, the frozen octopi or eggs would bring a lot of alien octopi viruses along with them that might be able to do the job for all I know.
        mirimir 8y ago
        Sure. But this isn't science. It's fiction. Or religion. If it's not testable, it's not science.
eco 8y ago
> If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I could have sworn there was a named Effect/Rule given to an extension of this but my googling is coming up short. It was about how you'll read a mainstream article about something you know a great deal about and see how much the journalists got wrong but don't keep that in mind when reading about things outside your expertise. I believe I read about it in the comments here on HN. Does anyone know what it was?
- GuiA 8y ago
  The Gell-Mann amnesia effect defines the idea that "I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect
- bajames 8y ago
  Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect
- indiv0 8y ago
  Slightly off-topic, but boy you weren't kidding. That topic is ungoogleable if you don't know the specific term for it. I spent 20 minutes or so trying various combinations of words trying to get it.
xtracto 8y ago
And that kind of irresponsible press also has managed to hinder the progress of science. Take for example Podkletnov's research, which was hastly taken into popular press and caused a halt in the studies (whereas the actual paper was conservative and measured).
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  Let's blame the scientists who cared so much about avoiding any possible embarrassment that were unwilling to do their job - which was to take the original paper for its own merits. Science funding gets bent away from promising areas for all kinds of crummy, narcissistic reasons. Blame the narcissism, not just sloppy journalism which is eternal and perhaps unavoidable.

by agar 8y ago

Nomentatus 8y ago

This article gives direct quotes from the authors, and the quotes are exciting, (33 authors FWIW) https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuses-cephalopods-earth-outer-space-aliens-cryopreserved-eggs-cambrian-explosion https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuse...

ianai 8y ago
Not entirely sure I can take that site seriously. Their ads seem pretty strongly in the fake news territory.
- AlexCoventry 8y ago
  The original paper is here. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610718300798 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071... Not sure I can take this paper seriously, either, but it's clear they're taking themselves seriously (in a good way.)
mirimir 8y ago
OK, but "gene complexes", not necessarily octopuses, per se.
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  Not necessarily, true. But these aren't bacteria and this is a whole lotta genes - so life here absorbing so much DNA coherently doesn't sound more plausible than eggs hatching to me. (Meteorites are freezing cold if you touch them right after they land, despite ablating most of their mass on the way down. Or rather, iron ones are - carbonaceous, I have no idea.)
  - mirimir 8y ago
    We humans use genes that were delivered by viruses.
    - stephengillie 8y ago
      We get DNA not just from viruses, but also vesicles. All cells, from humble bacteria all the way to our relatively huge and dynamic human cells, package snippets of DNA to send to other cells. It's like a message in a bottle, thrown out into the "sea" of our atmosphere. Or an email, and viruses are spam. Previously on HN: Cells Talk in a Language That Looks Like Viruses. [0] 800 million viruses fall onto every square meter of Earth every day. They kill 20% of bacterial life every day. [1] Video simulation of HIV infecting a cell and reproducing. [2] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17005810 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16839636 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16982396
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      Yes - a bit at a time, I take it whereas some bacteria can swallow whole chromosomes entire (so-called "competence"); so I was skeptical about so much DNA transferring to just one kind of creature, at once. But now I think about it, the frozen octopi or eggs would bring a lot of alien octopi viruses along with them that might be able to do the job for all I know.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Sure. But this isn't science. It's fiction. Or religion. If it's not testable, it's not science.

eco 8y ago

> If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I could have sworn there was a named Effect/Rule given to an extension of this but my googling is coming up short. It was about how you'll read a mainstream article about something you know a great deal about and see how much the journalists got wrong but don't keep that in mind when reading about things outside your expertise. I believe I read about it in the comments here on HN. Does anyone know what it was?

GuiA 8y ago
The Gell-Mann amnesia effect defines the idea that "I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect
bajames 8y ago
Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect
indiv0 8y ago
Slightly off-topic, but boy you weren't kidding. That topic is ungoogleable if you don't know the specific term for it. I spent 20 minutes or so trying various combinations of words trying to get it.

xtracto 8y ago

And that kind of irresponsible press also has managed to hinder the progress of science. Take for example Podkletnov's research, which was hastly taken into popular press and caused a halt in the studies (whereas the actual paper was conservative and measured).

Nomentatus 8y ago
Let's blame the scientists who cared so much about avoiding any possible embarrassment that were unwilling to do their job - which was to take the original paper for its own merits. Science funding gets bent away from promising areas for all kinds of crummy, narcissistic reasons. Blame the narcissism, not just sloppy journalism which is eternal and perhaps unavoidable.