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Great passage, thank you! I think some of the umbrage between the STEMy folks and the philosophers comes from the educational differences. Namely, math. STEMy

Great passage, thank you! I think some of the umbrage between the STEMy folks and the philosophers comes from the educational differences. Namely, math. STEMy folks, especially physicists, take a LOT of math. In my limited experiences, most philosophers do not have the calculus, let alone the matrix algebra, diff. eqs., Lagrangians, or the stats background (anecdata, so please rebuke!). Not that those things are required to do philosophy, but the lack of them limits the philosopher a lot. This is especially true in today's world filled with matrix algebra and stats, err... Machine Learning and AI. We constantly hear about the ethics of a self driving car near a school-bus, but it's all so much jawing discussion and shows an infantile understanding of the machines that are doing the driving. The lack of rigorous high level logic (Godel, Escher, Bach comes to mind) hinders many modern philosophers and puts their discipline off at the separate table for kids at Thanksgiving. If they want to be relevant in the modern world, they need to speak one of the important languages: math.

Schiphol 8y ago
>... most philosophers do not have the calculus, let alone the matrix algebra, diff. eqs., Lagrangians, or the stats background (anecdata, so please rebuke!). While this is certainly true for many philosophers, it is false for philosophers of physics. The best among them (say, Tim Maudlin, Laura Ruetsche, David Wallace and others) have a very sophisticated understanding of their target science and many hold advanced degrees in it.
- convolvatron 8y ago
  also don't forget the strong historic connections between mathematical logic, number theory, and philosophy.
pasabagi 8y ago
You should actually read philosophy. Or maths. Betrand Russel discovered Russel's paradox, which was extremely influential in the development of set theory. Many philosophers are excellent mathematicians. Logic is a discipline that is taught in basically every philosophy course.
- Balgair 8y ago
  To be clear, I am talking about contemporary individuals, not historical ones. Obviously Russell and Godel were excellent logicians and moved philosophy ahead considerably.
  - pasabagi 8y ago
    You should probably read contemporary philosophy, then! Formal logic is a central tool of most analytic philosophy, to this day. The more logic-oriented side of philosophy typically merges seamlessly into maths. It's not limited to analytic philosophy, either - continental thinkers like Badiou have sustained engagement with set theory - it's very traditional, actually.
    - Balgair 8y ago
      Do you have any specific recommendations of books? Thanks!
      - pasabagi 8y ago
        Well, it really depends on what you're interested in. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is actually very good, and contains a bibliography at the end of every article. Philosophy is very diverse in terms of subject matter - and my experience is that people are very different in terms of what questions they find engaging. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-paraconsistent/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-paraconsistent/ is interesting, recent work - but another approach would be to start with Russel, then go on from there.

Schiphol 8y ago

>... most philosophers do not have the calculus, let alone the matrix algebra, diff. eqs., Lagrangians, or the stats background (anecdata, so please rebuke!). While this is certainly true for many philosophers, it is false for philosophers of physics. The best among them (say, Tim Maudlin, Laura Ruetsche, David Wallace and others) have a very sophisticated understanding of their target science and many hold advanced degrees in it.

convolvatron 8y ago
also don't forget the strong historic connections between mathematical logic, number theory, and philosophy.

pasabagi 8y ago

You should actually read philosophy. Or maths. Betrand Russel discovered Russel's paradox, which was extremely influential in the development of set theory. Many philosophers are excellent mathematicians. Logic is a discipline that is taught in basically every philosophy course.

Balgair 8y ago
To be clear, I am talking about contemporary individuals, not historical ones. Obviously Russell and Godel were excellent logicians and moved philosophy ahead considerably.
- pasabagi 8y ago
  You should probably read contemporary philosophy, then! Formal logic is a central tool of most analytic philosophy, to this day. The more logic-oriented side of philosophy typically merges seamlessly into maths. It's not limited to analytic philosophy, either - continental thinkers like Badiou have sustained engagement with set theory - it's very traditional, actually.
  - Balgair 8y ago
    Do you have any specific recommendations of books? Thanks!
    - pasabagi 8y ago
      Well, it really depends on what you're interested in. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is actually very good, and contains a bibliography at the end of every article. Philosophy is very diverse in terms of subject matter - and my experience is that people are very different in terms of what questions they find engaging. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-paraconsistent/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-paraconsistent/ is interesting, recent work - but another approach would be to start with Russel, then go on from there.