3 ms·
Alright I'm going to have to disagree specifically on that point. I otherwise agree with your argument that there's no homogenous "they" banding together (And t
by tux3 8y ago
Alright I'm going to have to disagree specifically on that point. I otherwise agree with your argument that there's no homogenous "they" banding together (And there's an article for that, even! [0] And an article nuancing that view too. [1])
But I emphatically take issue with the idea that it's reasonable to shut down what sounds like, in your words, "very legitimate concerns" instead of guiding the concerned users through the proper process, fostering a healthy discussion.
If I'm being harsh, isn't that the role of an admin, someone who should know better?
It's important to follow rules, and I could ironically cite you a dozen Wikipedia guidelines that argue for[4][5][6][7] or against[8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15] the idea that not following proper process should get your concerns shut down.
But one of the founding and most important principles of Wikipedia[2] is precisely that it has no firm rules.
What it has are guidelines that have been found to work well, and policy that one is expected to follow unless there is a reason not to.
The moment that heavily codified process is used by experienced editors against less experienced ones or against people who have a legitimate concern, that is not helpful process and not a fair or acceptable outcome.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CABAL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CABAL
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:5P5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:5P5
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:LAWYER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:LAWYER
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOCOMMON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOCOMMON
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RECKLESS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RECKLESS
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CAUTIOUS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CAUTIOUS
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:EXPECT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:EXPECT
[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IAR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IAR
[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BOLD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BOLD
[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SNOWBALL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SNOWBALL
[11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOTBURO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOTBURO
[12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOTFATRAT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOTFATRAT
[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:COMMON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:COMMON
[14] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:REASONABILITY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:REASONABILITY
[15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:PRINCIPLE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:PRINCIPLE
- tptacek 8y agoIn what sense is a process being used by experienced editors against an inexperienced one here? Again: all I see is a person being told where to file grievances, and a general set of expectation about "Conflict of Interest" that doesn't in fact match the project's COI guidelines.
- tux3 8y ago>In what sense is a process being used by experienced editors against an inexperienced one here? Again: all I see is a person being told where to file grievances, and a general set of expectation about "Conflict of Interest" that doesn't in fact match the project's COI guidelines. I'm thinking of the FORUMSHOP justification for closing the discussion on ANI in particular, and I'm more generally responding to your posts in this thread. About this incident, I think it's fair to say that the administrator in question, with 13 years of experience and over 100k edits might be more experienced with the rules and policies than User:KalHolmann. Now if the COI guidelines do no justify filing a report to the COI Noticeboard, that is one thing and closing that request is understandable, but ANI is a place for discussion, and since we're using it as an example the FORUMSHOP close reason comes across as exceptionally severe and opinionated to me. I see a person being told to file grievances somewhere else, and an administrator who at the very least may have forgotten to Assume Good Faith in response.
- unreal37 8y agoWhat you see is bureaucracy. - File this form in triplicate here sir! - I did, but it was instantly rejected within 2 minutes. Where should I file my appeal? - File your appeal with the same person. - But it will get rejected again. Can't I appeal to someone else? - You can only file your appeal somewhere else if you fill out this form. - OK, I did that. It was rejected in 6 minutes by the same person. - Sounds like you're out of appeals. Stop trying to play the system.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]