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I think it is misleading to label Netflix as being an ad-free distributor. They in fact do generate revenue via advertising - it's just more modern and hidden:

I think it is misleading to label Netflix as being an ad-free distributor. They in fact do generate revenue via advertising - it's just more modern and hidden: product placement. "According to Isaacs, brands pay $50,000 to $500,000 per episode for getting into a Netflix or Amazon show. The price is calculated based on the popularity of the show and how long the product will be showed in the episode. There are two options for product placement in the shows: a logo in the background or a real plot point in the story." [0] This, to me, seems just as disruptive to the creative freedom of a program's producers/writers/directors. [0] https://learnbonds.com/134772/netflix-killing-secret-ads-shows/ https://learnbonds.com/134772/netflix-killing-secret-ads-sho...

new299 8y ago
Wow, I didn't know that. I guess it's logical given that it's been going on in TV/films for some time. This is probably the end-game of Adblocking unfortunately. A lot more product placement that is obviously harder to filter.
- greedo 8y ago
  I wouldn't be opposed to that; I just don't want malware/tracking running when I hit a website.
leetcrew 8y ago
> This, to me, seems just as disruptive to the creative freedom of a program's producers/writers/directors. only if there is a wide disparity in the price companies are willing to pay to have their product in the show. say you have a show about a lawyer and they need a car to drive around in. my guess is bmw and mercedes offer similar amounts of money, so you just pick the one that the character would prefer. on the other hand, you're probably not going to see anyone using a pixel 2 outside of mr robot.
- mmt 8y ago
  I've been noticing product placement for a long time[1], but the most jarring/disruptive product placement I've seen, at least in recent memory, is that of the Windows Phone, especially when every character in the show uses one. The UI is so distinctive, and they made such a point of showing it off. This was in more than one show. I have yet to see one being used by a real consumer. [1] Listening to directors' commentaries on <ahem> laserdiscs "ruined" this bit of moviemaking for me early on
jedberg 8y ago
That’s on the show creators though. Netflix doesn’t see a dime of that money.
- AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
  It's true that the show's creators typically receive the cash for the product placement. (I also would guess that Netflix is getting a cut of some kind.) Consider what it means that a service would optimize for this form of monetization. Brands that are placing products on Netflix shows are unencumbered by the brands/deals supported by other shows, since the product placement happens on the content level, instead of the distribution/broadcast level. Netflix can basically offer much more "robust" monetization options because its content choices don't narrow the scope and breadth of its list of supported brands. One positive externality caused by the more limited advertising strategies employed by traditional broadcasters was that advertising was not a free-for-all. Ads were shown in predictable ways, on consistent (contractually-obligated) schedules. Now, Netflix can enable more and more next-generation advertising options within its content offerings, which is certain to lead to some disturbing changes. These changes would definitely catch its customers by surprise, if Netflix chose to roll out these strategies all at once. But they appear to be doing it slowly, so that most of their users will probably not notice it.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    I've been seeing product placement from the traditional broadcasters well before Netflix came around.
bmelton 8y ago
It's probably unfair to refer to Netflix as ad-free, but (as I mention elsewhere), from a creator perspective, I'm referring more to the 'break-free' experience than 'ad-free'. I do agree that impositions on the creative team to write in product placement are a hurdle, but I disagree on how difficult that hurdle is relative to literally stopping the show for a few minutes at a time, and from a consumer's perspective, product placement (when not overdone) is far less disruptive to the narrative than a commercial. Of course, people discuss products in real life all the time, so it can be made to feel natural. Four Roses bourbon, TV shows like "Legion" and "Fargo", or Seagull Guitars could be product-placed into a TV show about my life and would look like just any other day in my life, for example.
- resu_nimda 8y ago
  One question though is what effect this has on shows with no plausible connection to contemporary life. Fantasy, historical, etc. Even in Legion a discussion involving brands would have to be pretty forced, though when they go out in public there's plenty of opportunity for logos (not sure if they used any placement or not, would be cool to see a database of this stuff). Anyway it seems like there could be an increasing pressure against scripts that have no opportunities for brands.
untog 8y ago
People need to bear this in mind more often. I recall watching the second (I think?) episode of Lost in Space the other day that absolutely crowbared in a placement for Oreo cookies, how great they are and how much they reminded the character of home. It took me completely out of the show. I would honestly have preferred an isolated 30 second ad to that. It does still affect the creative process, too - your show needs to be one an advertiser wants to be placed on, so there's every incentive to soften the show.
- resu_nimda 8y ago
  I agree with you in principle about product placement affecting the integrity of the work, but what's funny is I didn't even think twice about that one. Were there other products in the show? I remember looking for logos on the rovers and seeing none.
- greedo 8y ago
  This is prevalent in movies as well. I just rewatched Terminator 2, and was amazed at how many Pepsi placements there were.
lifeisstillgood 8y ago
How does one pay for a "plot point"? I can generally imagine how product placement works, but plot points seem a ever decreasing circle. For starters the story needs to be set in modern day, and mostly modern western world. Cans of coke look out of place in Game of Thrones. I can roughly imagine how you can get writers to create an embarrassing episode for Joey and Chandler over a Dunkin Donuts voucher, but the number of ways that can work well must be limited.
- qbrass 8y ago
  https://productplacementblog.com/tag/friends https://productplacementblog.com/tag/friends
p49k 8y ago
The product placement in Netflix shows can be so jarring; I don’t understand how it could possibly be worth such a small amount to permanently damage your creative works.

new299 8y ago

Wow, I didn't know that. I guess it's logical given that it's been going on in TV/films for some time. This is probably the end-game of Adblocking unfortunately. A lot more product placement that is obviously harder to filter.

greedo 8y ago
I wouldn't be opposed to that; I just don't want malware/tracking running when I hit a website.

leetcrew 8y ago

> This, to me, seems just as disruptive to the creative freedom of a program's producers/writers/directors. only if there is a wide disparity in the price companies are willing to pay to have their product in the show. say you have a show about a lawyer and they need a car to drive around in. my guess is bmw and mercedes offer similar amounts of money, so you just pick the one that the character would prefer. on the other hand, you're probably not going to see anyone using a pixel 2 outside of mr robot.

mmt 8y ago
I've been noticing product placement for a long time[1], but the most jarring/disruptive product placement I've seen, at least in recent memory, is that of the Windows Phone, especially when every character in the show uses one. The UI is so distinctive, and they made such a point of showing it off. This was in more than one show. I have yet to see one being used by a real consumer. [1] Listening to directors' commentaries on <ahem> laserdiscs "ruined" this bit of moviemaking for me early on

jedberg 8y ago

That’s on the show creators though. Netflix doesn’t see a dime of that money.

AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
It's true that the show's creators typically receive the cash for the product placement. (I also would guess that Netflix is getting a cut of some kind.) Consider what it means that a service would optimize for this form of monetization. Brands that are placing products on Netflix shows are unencumbered by the brands/deals supported by other shows, since the product placement happens on the content level, instead of the distribution/broadcast level. Netflix can basically offer much more "robust" monetization options because its content choices don't narrow the scope and breadth of its list of supported brands. One positive externality caused by the more limited advertising strategies employed by traditional broadcasters was that advertising was not a free-for-all. Ads were shown in predictable ways, on consistent (contractually-obligated) schedules. Now, Netflix can enable more and more next-generation advertising options within its content offerings, which is certain to lead to some disturbing changes. These changes would definitely catch its customers by surprise, if Netflix chose to roll out these strategies all at once. But they appear to be doing it slowly, so that most of their users will probably not notice it.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  I've been seeing product placement from the traditional broadcasters well before Netflix came around.

bmelton 8y ago

It's probably unfair to refer to Netflix as ad-free, but (as I mention elsewhere), from a creator perspective, I'm referring more to the 'break-free' experience than 'ad-free'. I do agree that impositions on the creative team to write in product placement are a hurdle, but I disagree on how difficult that hurdle is relative to literally stopping the show for a few minutes at a time, and from a consumer's perspective, product placement (when not overdone) is far less disruptive to the narrative than a commercial. Of course, people discuss products in real life all the time, so it can be made to feel natural. Four Roses bourbon, TV shows like "Legion" and "Fargo", or Seagull Guitars could be product-placed into a TV show about my life and would look like just any other day in my life, for example.

resu_nimda 8y ago
One question though is what effect this has on shows with no plausible connection to contemporary life. Fantasy, historical, etc. Even in Legion a discussion involving brands would have to be pretty forced, though when they go out in public there's plenty of opportunity for logos (not sure if they used any placement or not, would be cool to see a database of this stuff). Anyway it seems like there could be an increasing pressure against scripts that have no opportunities for brands.

untog 8y ago

People need to bear this in mind more often. I recall watching the second (I think?) episode of Lost in Space the other day that absolutely crowbared in a placement for Oreo cookies, how great they are and how much they reminded the character of home. It took me completely out of the show. I would honestly have preferred an isolated 30 second ad to that. It does still affect the creative process, too - your show needs to be one an advertiser wants to be placed on, so there's every incentive to soften the show.

resu_nimda 8y ago
I agree with you in principle about product placement affecting the integrity of the work, but what's funny is I didn't even think twice about that one. Were there other products in the show? I remember looking for logos on the rovers and seeing none.
greedo 8y ago
This is prevalent in movies as well. I just rewatched Terminator 2, and was amazed at how many Pepsi placements there were.

lifeisstillgood 8y ago

How does one pay for a "plot point"? I can generally imagine how product placement works, but plot points seem a ever decreasing circle. For starters the story needs to be set in modern day, and mostly modern western world. Cans of coke look out of place in Game of Thrones. I can roughly imagine how you can get writers to create an embarrassing episode for Joey and Chandler over a Dunkin Donuts voucher, but the number of ways that can work well must be limited.

qbrass 8y ago
https://productplacementblog.com/tag/friends https://productplacementblog.com/tag/friends

p49k 8y ago

The product placement in Netflix shows can be so jarring; I don’t understand how it could possibly be worth such a small amount to permanently damage your creative works.