4 ms·

And another reason to avoid the public "education" system. They will make you pay (via taxes) for services you do not want or need.... to enroll at a place you

And another reason to avoid the public "education" system. They will make you pay (via taxes) for services you do not want or need.... to enroll at a place you do not want to be. How lovely.

IkmoIkmo 8y ago
That's not quite right. We're talking about a fundamental shortage of capacity for popular schools here. i.e. there are 10k spots and 8k students, but the top schools have fewer spots than interested students. A private system wouldn't solve this problem. It'd only allow profit-seeking schools to admit the richest students only. It's not a recipe for societal success because you're giving children a ticket not based on merit, but based on their parents' riches. This is closer to a plutocracy than a meritocracy. But either way, merit is hard to define because we're talking about 11 year old kids deciding on secondary school in the Netherlands starting around age 12. So you need some way of ranking students. The first one is student preference. It's not the case that you get enrolled at a school you had no interest in. The vast majority of students are enrolled in their schools of choice, but some of them may need to accept their 2nd or 3rd choice. In any case, the game theoretically driven choice affords students the highest chance of getting into a school closest to their preference. The Dutch public school system does quite well and has good outcomes, a testament to how few private schools there are despite private schools being given ample room to thrive here.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  > The Dutch public school system does quite well and has good outcomes, a testament to how few private schools there are despite private schools being given ample room to thrive here. I beg to differ, there is not ample room for private schools to thrive. This is primarily due to higher social cohesion as compared to other countries, the social acceptance of sending your kid to a private school in the US is generally assumed, whereas one is apt to be looked down on if they choose to have their children go to a less resourced, private school in the Netherlands. Despite private schools here in the US providing students with a lower quality teacher (here in Seattle, they pay $10k less a year to private school teachers than the school district does on average), while also permitting students to spread disease and not vaccinate, many upper class and middle class families send their kids to these schools. Its a testament to a lack of information and push back against objectively shitty schools. On the topic of vaccines, its crazy that the Catholic Church allows kids in their private schools to not be vaccinated. They're single handedly bringing back diseases that hadn't been a notable issue in decades.
  - IkmoIkmo 8y ago
    > whereas one is apt to be looked down on if they choose to have their children go to a less resourced, private school in the Netherlands. I'm not sure that's true. Private schools are typically well-resourced in the Netherlands. For example, international schools tend to charge about 20k per academic year whereas public schools make do with 8.5k per year. Quality isn't bad in private schools here, it's quite good actually. But so is the public system which has socialised costs. Most parents are quite content with this system.
michaelcampbell 8y ago
You don't want or need an educated workforce-to-be? Huh.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  If you take this as an example of adoctrination, you are absolutely right. Who are the future workers to make choices on their own behalf, they should learn submission.

And another reason to avoid the public "education" system. They will make you pay (via taxes) for services you do not want or need.... to enroll at a place you do not want to be. How lovely.

IkmoIkmo 8y ago

That's not quite right. We're talking about a fundamental shortage of capacity for popular schools here. i.e. there are 10k spots and 8k students, but the top schools have fewer spots than interested students. A private system wouldn't solve this problem. It'd only allow profit-seeking schools to admit the richest students only. It's not a recipe for societal success because you're giving children a ticket not based on merit, but based on their parents' riches. This is closer to a plutocracy than a meritocracy. But either way, merit is hard to define because we're talking about 11 year old kids deciding on secondary school in the Netherlands starting around age 12. So you need some way of ranking students. The first one is student preference. It's not the case that you get enrolled at a school you had no interest in. The vast majority of students are enrolled in their schools of choice, but some of them may need to accept their 2nd or 3rd choice. In any case, the game theoretically driven choice affords students the highest chance of getting into a school closest to their preference. The Dutch public school system does quite well and has good outcomes, a testament to how few private schools there are despite private schools being given ample room to thrive here.

StudentStuff 8y ago
> The Dutch public school system does quite well and has good outcomes, a testament to how few private schools there are despite private schools being given ample room to thrive here. I beg to differ, there is not ample room for private schools to thrive. This is primarily due to higher social cohesion as compared to other countries, the social acceptance of sending your kid to a private school in the US is generally assumed, whereas one is apt to be looked down on if they choose to have their children go to a less resourced, private school in the Netherlands. Despite private schools here in the US providing students with a lower quality teacher (here in Seattle, they pay $10k less a year to private school teachers than the school district does on average), while also permitting students to spread disease and not vaccinate, many upper class and middle class families send their kids to these schools. Its a testament to a lack of information and push back against objectively shitty schools. On the topic of vaccines, its crazy that the Catholic Church allows kids in their private schools to not be vaccinated. They're single handedly bringing back diseases that hadn't been a notable issue in decades.
- IkmoIkmo 8y ago
  > whereas one is apt to be looked down on if they choose to have their children go to a less resourced, private school in the Netherlands. I'm not sure that's true. Private schools are typically well-resourced in the Netherlands. For example, international schools tend to charge about 20k per academic year whereas public schools make do with 8.5k per year. Quality isn't bad in private schools here, it's quite good actually. But so is the public system which has socialised costs. Most parents are quite content with this system.

michaelcampbell 8y ago

You don't want or need an educated workforce-to-be? Huh.

conanbatt 8y ago
If you take this as an example of adoctrination, you are absolutely right. Who are the future workers to make choices on their own behalf, they should learn submission.