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Yup, will definitely be a big part of the story! Not sure I'm a big fan myself. They sort of sit between bicycles and electric mini cars. [0] The cars are safe

Yup, will definitely be a big part of the story! Not sure I'm a big fan myself. They sort of sit between bicycles and electric mini cars. [0] The cars are safer and allow easy multi-passengers, groceries, long-distance, all weather conditions, intercity travel. Bicycles are cheap, good for your health, nimble, safe on dedicated cycling infrastructure (see the Netherlands). Scooters take the best but also the worst from both. They're low-effort and relatively high-speed compared to bicycles, but nimble and relatively cheap compared to cars. But they're also relatively expensive compared to bicycles, have poor weather conditions of bicycles and are relatively unsafe and can't do intercity trips or grocery runs as easily as cars. They also aren't really suited for automation, and I feel they're less suited for ridesharing, but it's not easy to identify exactly why that is. I kind of feel every scooter ride is better off either as a bicycle ride or car ride, assuming you have these ubiquitous self-driving car2go 'travel pods' you could call em, and assuming you have nice cycling infrastructure. (I have a very European/Dutch perspective on this, outside cyclist-friendly cities I'd much rather have an electric scooter. But as a city I'd rather promote different infrastructure choices than scooters.) [0] https://www.car2go.com/media/data/germany/stuttgart/stuttgart-parking_492x20.jpg https://www.car2go.com/media/data/germany/stuttgart/stuttgar...

hndamien 8y ago
I think we are talking different scooters, I'm not talking about moped. I' talking like Xiaomi, Ninebot, e-Micro. Cheaper than bikes, low effort, high speed, nimble, shopping limited to a back pack, bad in weather. Less weight, less space and less dangerous than bikes.
- IkmoIkmo 8y ago
  Ah yeah, misunderstood. It's quite interesting, I grew up in a cycling city/country. Sometimes we see reports of my countrymen going abroad to consult other cities in the US, Africa, Asia etc to go cyclist-first, and a key issue pops up is that of convincing people on the image aspects I never considered. i.e., jumping on a bicycle in a place like Cairo just means you're poor and low-class and a self-respecting salaried person wouldn't do it. I always understood that even though I never experienced any such thoughts myself due to growing up in a cyclist culture. I feel a bit like that with scooters. I mean I'm young, a student, I'd ride them. But as silly and self conscious as it sounds, I probably wouldn't in my 30s, 40s or 50s. I wouldn't take one to work and I'd feel weird about showing up at my gf or friends on one or walking around with a folded one. I now know what it feels like when people say these things about cyclists. It's hard for me to shape an opinion on adoption. Is it one of those things where if the infrastructure etc is good enough, everyone will do it. (e.g. cycling in Amsterdam, all ages, genders, ethnicities and classes cycle, although there is a bit of an ethnic divide). Or if it's one of those things where generally 30+ year olds will just never use scooters in substantial numbers in most countries.
- walshemj 8y ago
  I would have said they are less stable and more likely to crash on hitting a pot hole. A simple look at the geometry of a scooter (the small wheeled kids type not a vespa or c90) vs a bike will tell you that. Let a lone the better and safer breaking you have on a bike vs an electric scooter
  - hndamien 8y ago
    You'd be surprised on the breaking. Because of the low mass and ability to jump off and put your feet down you can stop quite quickly. Potholes on the other hand are more challenging than a bike, so you need to watch. That said, your top speed is significantly less than a bike, so its less of an issue.
dcosson 8y ago
I think you have this wrong. Moped type scooters match your description, the new wave of light electric scooters sits more between walking and bicycles. Compared to bicycles they’re smaller, so easier to maneuver in crowded spaces (not that you should be riding them on the sidewalk for instance, but on a mixed use bike path or something they’re actually slightly less disruptive to pedestrians than bikes) but also slightly scarier if you have to use on a street with no bike lane. They’re lighter so easier to pick up and move, they’re more one-size fits all than bikes are so better for renting. They can go faster than a slow cyclist but the max speed, at least of the ones we have today, is slower than a moderate to fast cyclist. Plus you’re not sweating when you get to your destination which is the main reason I prefer it for a short commute over biking. The downsides vs biking are that it’s less comfortable and worse for longer distances, and you don’t get any exercise if that’s part of the biking equation for you. So no, every scooter ride is not better as a bicycle ride. It’s a new form of lightweight transportation with its own strengths and weaknesses, and the nice thing is it fits very well into existing bike infrastructure so there’s no reason to have to choose between which to support.
ghaff 8y ago
I have to say that (what seem to be increasing numbers relative to prior visits of) mopeds in the bike lanes in Amsterdam seemed like a bit of a scary combination. I was curious enough to look it up and apparently mopeds are now supposed to stay to the roads but apparently no one pays attention to that.
- IkmoIkmo 8y ago
  That's starting in 2019, not yet the case. Law will take effect in january probably, and then by summer the switch should be made.

hndamien 8y ago

I think we are talking different scooters, I'm not talking about moped. I' talking like Xiaomi, Ninebot, e-Micro. Cheaper than bikes, low effort, high speed, nimble, shopping limited to a back pack, bad in weather. Less weight, less space and less dangerous than bikes.

IkmoIkmo 8y ago
Ah yeah, misunderstood. It's quite interesting, I grew up in a cycling city/country. Sometimes we see reports of my countrymen going abroad to consult other cities in the US, Africa, Asia etc to go cyclist-first, and a key issue pops up is that of convincing people on the image aspects I never considered. i.e., jumping on a bicycle in a place like Cairo just means you're poor and low-class and a self-respecting salaried person wouldn't do it. I always understood that even though I never experienced any such thoughts myself due to growing up in a cyclist culture. I feel a bit like that with scooters. I mean I'm young, a student, I'd ride them. But as silly and self conscious as it sounds, I probably wouldn't in my 30s, 40s or 50s. I wouldn't take one to work and I'd feel weird about showing up at my gf or friends on one or walking around with a folded one. I now know what it feels like when people say these things about cyclists. It's hard for me to shape an opinion on adoption. Is it one of those things where if the infrastructure etc is good enough, everyone will do it. (e.g. cycling in Amsterdam, all ages, genders, ethnicities and classes cycle, although there is a bit of an ethnic divide). Or if it's one of those things where generally 30+ year olds will just never use scooters in substantial numbers in most countries.
walshemj 8y ago
I would have said they are less stable and more likely to crash on hitting a pot hole. A simple look at the geometry of a scooter (the small wheeled kids type not a vespa or c90) vs a bike will tell you that. Let a lone the better and safer breaking you have on a bike vs an electric scooter
- hndamien 8y ago
  You'd be surprised on the breaking. Because of the low mass and ability to jump off and put your feet down you can stop quite quickly. Potholes on the other hand are more challenging than a bike, so you need to watch. That said, your top speed is significantly less than a bike, so its less of an issue.

dcosson 8y ago

I think you have this wrong. Moped type scooters match your description, the new wave of light electric scooters sits more between walking and bicycles. Compared to bicycles they’re smaller, so easier to maneuver in crowded spaces (not that you should be riding them on the sidewalk for instance, but on a mixed use bike path or something they’re actually slightly less disruptive to pedestrians than bikes) but also slightly scarier if you have to use on a street with no bike lane. They’re lighter so easier to pick up and move, they’re more one-size fits all than bikes are so better for renting. They can go faster than a slow cyclist but the max speed, at least of the ones we have today, is slower than a moderate to fast cyclist. Plus you’re not sweating when you get to your destination which is the main reason I prefer it for a short commute over biking. The downsides vs biking are that it’s less comfortable and worse for longer distances, and you don’t get any exercise if that’s part of the biking equation for you. So no, every scooter ride is not better as a bicycle ride. It’s a new form of lightweight transportation with its own strengths and weaknesses, and the nice thing is it fits very well into existing bike infrastructure so there’s no reason to have to choose between which to support.

ghaff 8y ago

I have to say that (what seem to be increasing numbers relative to prior visits of) mopeds in the bike lanes in Amsterdam seemed like a bit of a scary combination. I was curious enough to look it up and apparently mopeds are now supposed to stay to the roads but apparently no one pays attention to that.

IkmoIkmo 8y ago
That's starting in 2019, not yet the case. Law will take effect in january probably, and then by summer the switch should be made.